I work at a major institution of higher learning. Scholarships have more lenient requirements for minorities. Any minority that succeeds even near that of asians/whites receives far more assistance.

As a white individual who lived in a 700 Sqft apartment with my father/sister through middle and high school (below the poverty level), I find it abhorrent that I was discriminated against because of my race (my scores/GPA were barely under the mark of others who were awarded merit-based scholarships, but higher than minorities who received them). We received no welfare benefits or handouts during that time.

Don’t misunderstand – I am not saying I should have received anything based on my family’s socioeconomic condition. I am simply asking that the playing field be level based on a measurable standard of merit, without inserting race – *at all*.

If you believe that the SAT/ACT or US educational system discriminate against your race, do the research/advocacy to change the measurement for merit. Don’t play the wrongheaded, destructive game of “these races deserve lower standards because of discrimination.” You’re disingenuous and lying to yourself. True merit is the only fair way to distribute educational opportunities. Anything else leads to nepotism, cronyism, more racial divisions, and more balkanization.

“White privilege” might be true in the past, but in today’s society, it might not be true in all situations. Have you worked in a large corporation? I used to work for a high tech company in the early 90s. When it came to time for promotion, the HR of the company started counting how many employees of color and womend they need to promote in order to meet the federal affirmative action requirment so that the company would be able to get government contracts and would not be sued. As a result, minority women got the best chance to be promoted because of their dual minority status regardless of their true qualifications. Who were least to be promoted? White males, no matter how qualify they are.

Do you know what happened to that company? Got divided and sold piece by piece. The company was AT&T (not the current AT&T but the original mother bell)

Second, “Danny’s” post proves what the American Civil Rights Institute and its Chairman, Ward Connerly, have been striving to to achieve for the past thirteen years: a colorblind America in which ‘affirmative action’ ought to be based on socioeconomic factors, not race. That position reflects Martin Luther King’s original dream. King never said: “I have a dream that someday my chilcren will receive preferences.” In fact, Dr. King would be disturbed by the insulting practice of lowering achievement standards for designated minorities, thus implying their intellectual inferiority.

Lastly, every fair-minded American (and I believe that Americans are a fair people) would agree that racial discrimination should be vigorously opposed and legally prosecuted. This, however, should be done on a case-by-case, individual basis, not by giving preferences to entire groups. Ward Connerly is absolutely right when he says in his article “Fools Don’t Know What They Don’t Know” that proponents of ‘affirmative action’ (better known as ‘race preferences’) “are consigning generations of black children to a status of academic underachievers.” How true! Academics nationwide would be wise to heed his warnings.

These individuals suppose that by changing public policy to favor certain groups over others, they can somehow “create” equality. I think this is misguided. One, this does not change the original inequality, it just creates worse inequalities for other groups as someone else has mentioned re: Asian and Indian (non-native american) individuals. It logically follows from the first action that we have to create more groups which receive additional consideration, until we have reached equality. This means that we have to put everyone into their socioethnic groups in order to review them for admission and rewards which are supposed to be merit-based. We’ve accomplished the exact same as the institutions who favor people based on wealth, and those unheard voices of hardship (that cannot be given a racial title and politicized for gain) will be left in the dust, even though they were qualified and by merit should be awarded the prize.

Further, even those individuals who benefit from these programs are perceived as “tokens.” I would be embarassed and my success would be marginalized if I was a beneficiary of a program which denied someone more qualified than myself but favored me based on the color of my skin.

But the problem with this whole idea is that we have to review people either strictly based on merit, or we have to engage in the bureaucratic and subjective debate of “who deserves additional consideration.” As soon as you engage in the idea that soandso deserves additional consideration, you demolish the freedom to fail and the freedom to succeed, and you’ve engaged in cronyism.

There is another, more equitable solution. Allow those institutions who will practice cronyism by financial means to do so, and allow those institutions who do not to choose the best students, unencumbered by silly ideas of “equality by means of forced inequality,” to remain free to do as they wish.

I guarantee you that in time the reputation of those institutions who judge “not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character” will rise to the top and help nurture the leaders and innovators in our society. Do not arrogantly believe that you can create equality by means of inequality. You can only create equality by means of equality.

Just catching up on my e-mail and came across this article and the wonderful conversation that has been going on. 69 posts to this article and counting.

This would have been a great outcome of a protest on a college campus. All the students getting involved, talking about ideas, beliefs and perspective. All the faculty and administration talking about how and why things are the way they are right now. What might make it better. Wow, could you image it?

Sadly, we don’t have that type of environment on our college campus’ in the US right now, but what if we did again? We could have debates using real arguments with data and substance and make them justify their soundbites. We could help our students see a bigger world then when they arrived.

Wouldn’t that be cool?

Sorry to interrupt, please continue….

Congratulations on your academic accomplishments. However, your field has very little to do with the historic analysis of economic, political and social inequality, or race relations in this country. Simply by examining your comments, one can ascertain that you (and many others on this thread, like Carol) do not have the ability to undertake deep Socratic and philosophical criticism and introspection. You simply make your argument(s) based on your emotions. I refuse to engage you in debate because your comments are overly simplistic. I could present you with data, statistics, sources, anecdotes and examples but your thought process is simply not complex enough to understand how human relationships in history have worked (so far). You, and others, are attempting to take an extremely complex topic and conflate it to issues of contemporary political and economic access and/or denial of access. The issues are much more complicated. Your fear and ignorance forces you to attack processes (not to mention people) that you do not fully understand. Moreover, your social position and historic legacy impedes your ability to demonstrate the slightest bit of empathy whatever when it comes to under-represented men and women of color. Besides, the original thread is not about “you’re picking on me because I’m black“, ‘crap.’” Do not invoke the name of Dr. King in a feeble attempt to give substance to your narrow-minded ideologies. Dr. King based many of his arguments on the principles of agape. I concede the fact that there are poor people of every hue in our country, but racial, economic, and political inequality do still exist, Calhoungal. The issues are just above your ability to comprehend.

I would say to all: Love your race, be proud of your race, but respect other races. This applies equally to blacks and whites and all others. One does not need any proofs to love their race. It is like loving your child or your parents. You do not need to compare them to others. You simply love them because this is your family. If each person is proud of their racial heritage but respects all other races to follow their path of development then, hopefully, racial frictions will diminish.

Perhaps America, with time, will show the World an example of a truly free society in which each race is guaranteed survival and free and successful development. For this to happen we all need to embrace this idea of racial justice.

Here I sit…as well.. BA in Humanities…near completion of MBA..woman of African descent living in America….that had to WORK HARD for everything I’ve EARNED. Walk in my shoes for a day or two…travel where I travel for a day or two…experience what I experience for a day or two…and see what it feels like to be discriminated against simply BECAUSE you are Black. See what if feels like to have young white children try to rub the color off your skin because they think you are “dirty.” My GOD, how do babies get these thoughts? They have misguided and uninformed parents, aunties, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters and teachers like you that have “privilege” and are arrogant about it, BLAME others and DO NOTHING to use it to better humanity Walk in my shoes or others like me to feel the TRUE essence of what it means to be Black living in AMERICA. I do agree with you…the experience at times can be summed up as CRAP.

I say “it’s deep.”

Calhoungal, your privilege is showing….but as they say…”I ain’t mad at ya!”

There are MANY people who are white that DO understand “privilege”…and USE IT to better the world. And, it is with those people and others that I align my energies and give of myself to work towards UNITY…in AMERICA and all over the world!

It’s all about PEACE!

Peace & blessings to you Calhoungal, Don, John, Sylvia and all like-minded!

I agree with those who’ve stated that any discrimination is unacceptable. However, we must also acknowledge that in general (though not in all cases) policies and procedures leave out large numbers of students because they are historically underrepresented. Where I, living in a white middle class suburb, might meet someone who can assist with my college search because most of those in my community have been through the same, those who do not have this background are unlikely to have this experience.

There is a belief or perhaps a feeling evident here that there is an finite amount of power — that if one group does better, another must do worse. Perhaps this is true. But it doesn’t negate the need to advance those whose opportunities would be limited were they not exposed to the college experience through whatever means available. I benefit from a diversity of experiences be they from racial/ethnic background, socio-economic status, or diversity of thought. Whether you agree with affirmative action as it has played out or not, you benefit from the experiences it brings to our classrooms.

We do agree on one point, discrimination is discrimination….period. Halleluyah for consensus in the midst of disagreement.

White Privilege is REALITY….period.

Do you actually believe the comments you posted. Are you serious minorities have never been “preferred”. For your information blacks were not included in the Declaration of Independence. Slavery was still in full effect when our founders drafted this great document.

Maybe it is just me but I don’t see the disadvantages that some whites are claiming.
In 2004 whites median income was 10 times greater than blacks and 12 times greater than hispanics. Whites total wealth in 2004 was 120 times greater than blacks and 360 times greater than hispanics.

I find it funny how a group of people who receive preference in almost every situation claim discrimination based on the ONE thing that allows another group of people the chance at success.

Why would you disagree with allowing minorities which include WOMEN (Sylvia) a chance that they would more than likely not be given if it was not for Affirmative Action? You should be praising Affirmative Action if you are educated and/or employeed.

So, here it goes. Anytime a person is “preferred” on the basis of immutable characteristics (color, gender, ethnicity, etc.), another person is “disadvantaged.” The result is discrimination — no “if’s” or “but’s.” Sadly, many academics can’t wrap their minds around this simple logic.

Also, we should do away with the qualifier “reverse” when we mention the term discrimination in America. That is, when whites or Asians are disadvantaged by the granting of preferences to blacks and Hispanics, it is NOT “reverse” discrimination; it is simply “discrimination.” Nothing — not diversity, righting past wrongs, inclusiveness, or leveling the playing field — justifies the ugly and pervasive practice of racial preferences in a country whose founders promised “the pursuit of happiness” to every single American.

Lastly, invoking Peggy McIntosh and Tim Wise who have made it their life’s obsession to peddle in “white guilt based on white privilege” shows me where you are coming from. Your brand of ideology is not open to reason, logic, or evidence. But, I do agree with you on one thing: never argue with a fool…. .”

The reason there are organizations like…the National Society of Black Engineers is that organizations like the American Society of Civil Engineers and The American Society of Mechanical Engineers and The American Dental Association and the American Medical Association and any other professional association founded years ago with the name “American” in front of it would not allow Blacks to be members. We formed our own…The NATIONAL Association of Black Engineers, The NATIONAL Medical Association The NATIONAL Dental Association.

History is so important Don.

I’m going to take the advice that my mother gave me years ago and apply it to your comments… “never argue with a fool, it will be hard to know who’s who”

Your privilege is showing John. Try Peggy McIntosh or Tim Wise for a remedy.

Be blessed!

1. Blacks definitely have more rights on college campus and in general. The reason I say this is that they are allowed to organize and Whites are not allowed to organize to protect their interests.
Example: The National Society of Black Engineers (NSBE). Link: http://national.nsbe.org/
As we all know there is no “National Society of White Engineers”. Clearly this is a great injustice with respect to people of European origin. And there are many more such examples when non-whites are allowed to form their societies on campuses while whites can not do this.

2. Extra funding is reserved for people of non-European origin on many levels. Just google “minority scholarship” and you will see lots of scholarship reserved specifically for people of non-European origin. Basically this is a legalized racism. If your skin is black then you get this scholarship, but if it is white, you do not. No other questions are asked. This seems to be unfair.

If racism in this country is to be abolished, all groups should be equal. If Blacks are allowed to form societies and clubs on campus then Whites should form their societies as well. If Blacks get scholarships then there should be a proportional number of scholarship reserved for Whites. Either there is justice for all or no justice for anybody.

Some might make an objection that European people are already enjoying good life etc. Yet we know that Europeans are disappearing worldwide. Their percentage is shrinking very rapidly among other races. They might disappear completely if thing do not change. Also, they are loosing their leading role in society. Thus they deserve as much support as people of African origin or anybody else.

What I don’t understand though is how one can really believe that the minority students at any university are actually getting MORE than the white students and thus justify that they should pay more for their items. That is patently ridiculous.

It is a form of free speech. On the other hand, universities have fairly well established that they are private property and have the right to manage speech in ways that are consistent with the mission of the given university. I definitely believe universities should all have, as part of their missions, the goal of educating about prejudice and discrimination, and open their doors to a good mix of qualified students.

Perhaps some parts of the program are good and some are bad. Perhaps it is good to help women to get jobs at universities easier, since they need money these days to support their families. The salary of just the husband alone is not enough any more, due to a new economic order.

There is no reason why everyone shouldn’t be given a chance. However, it is currently being based on the wrong standards. If there was an affirmative action bake sale where the kids with less money were charged less, I would have no problem with that. We should have equality of opportunity, regardless of race.

I don’t know where people get the idea that “minorities” pay less for college. As an administrator, I know of a practice to give rich white kids full scholarships because of the potential that their parents will donate to the school. People who have an in are more likely to get a better financial aid package.

I think most of the kids who were having the bake sale are clearly uninformed and more interestingly, they are likely to be middle, middle-upper class white kids with a lot of rethoric and racial stereotypes and bias and little information to back it up. If they were informed, they would know that Affirmative action mainly benefit women not people of color. This is what the data shows. Also, they would have learned a little about finacial aid packaging and enrollemnt data at Buckness and would realize that, contrary to racial polemics/bias. The population of students of color at buckness is less than 12% meaning 88% white with 62% of the student population receiving financial aid. Given that the 62% is not all people of color, why targeting students of color? Also, are they implying that there are no students of color who pay more than them to attend Bucknell? How would they know this, given that the information is only available to a few administrators. Do these misguided Republicans think that it is by coincidence that the school if less than 12% people of color and 88% white? Given that some of those protesting are likely to have received some financial aid, even in spite of their high income erarning parents, have they given it back or are they involved in targeting minorities. I spent yesterday reading on the Buckness website. According to them the environment is hostile to people of color – the term they use is “campus climate is not welcoming to people of color”.
I have read a lot of comment from the usual ill-informed. I have raised some food for thought.

The problem I have is that Low income white folks should be joining hand with low income folks of color so everybody can have a fair shake but too many prefer to feel good being poor, racist, and buying the Republican propaganda that folks of color have it good and get free stuff. It’s really unfortunate to see folks who could be ally sit back, struggling to feed their kids and pay their bills but feeling good about being white…You know, the usual: “I may be poor but I am white”, while they young rich Republican punks take them and everybody else who cannot think for a ride.
Mo

You say black people were enslaved. But we know that many black people in Africa were slave holders. Also, very many white people were enslaved as well. Read for example “They Were White and They Were Slaves: The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America (Paperback)” by Michael A. Hoffman II.

Hoffman presents a rough outline of the history of the enslavement of whites in Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, the Carribean and finally in America from Roman times to the begining of the 20th century. Documented are such details as:

-Slavery in ancient Greece and attitudes towards slaves there
-Arab traffic in white slave to the Middle East
-White slavery and ethnic-cleansing in Ireland and Barbados under Oliver Cromwell
-Kidnapping of whites in Britain to bring to the Americas
-Child labor and gross working conditions in the mines and factories in America and Britain during the industrial revoloution.
-One of the most disturbing events documented here: the use of “human brooms” as chimney sweeps in England during the 1800′s. These might be able to claim the worst status. The orphans who had to climb up chimneys filled with toxic dirt and soot weren’t even paid to do so, they were forced to do that work and then BEG for a living.
-White slavery and white slave trade in colonial America. These whites were treated as more expendable then the African slaves because the slave ships had to go out of their way to pick up Africans.
-”Redneck,” because whites had to work out in the fields in the sun so their skin would get tanned and burned.
-”Hillbilly,” because when they were freed or escaped, the slaves had nowhere to live except in remote places in the backwoods and especially APPALACIA.
-The race politics presented here explain and elucidate the animostiy between blacks, lower class whites and the white slave-and-plantation owning aristocracy in the South.
-This one’s the kicker: the word SLAVE actually comes from SLAV, the white peoples of Eastern Europe who were often raided and held in bondage by invaders.

This book is well worth getting a hand on and reading, because it proves that slavery is a universal condition that has been practiced against all races and nations of people, even against those traditionally portrayed (i.e. Anglo Saxons/whites) as being the slavemasters and oppressors and as people whith so-called “white privilege”.