15 Responses to “Follow up: Club supporting abortion loses president, adviser”

1. Andrea Seeclear Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 10:42 am

   It’s a private school. They can do whatever they want. Heck, my university takes away constitutional rights from its students and it’s a public school. (Not that constitutional rights were involved in this situation at all.)

2. B. Marlowe Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 11:22 am

   I thought this issue was settled by the Supreme Court in 1985 when Georgetown University- a private Catholic school, tried to ban their gay student organization. They lost. Universities-private or not can not discriminate.

3. Paul Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

   I believe that an earlier story pointed out that Liberty University receives federal funding of a sort that makes it subject to some regulation of its activities. Click on the link in the line “for details of the club’s ousting, click here” and you’ll see.

   Regardless, I think the better response to this is for people to simply avoid the place. Why encourage the kind of immorality that Liberty promotes? If they can’t learn to behave properly, let them just fade into oblivion.

4. Renee Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 12:13 pm

   Ditto. It is a private school, if you don’t like it, go somewhere else. Personally, I think the behavior that resulted in Ms. Childress’s misdemeanor charges shows gross immaturity and poor judgement on the part of Ms. Childress. I really wouldn’t want her teaching or advising my children regarding ANY aspect of life!

5. David Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 2:09 pm

   Let’s look at some equivalents of the “if you don’t like it, go somewhere else” argument:

   “If a restaurant refuses to serve blacks, just go somewhere else”.
   “If that country club won’t admit Jews, just go somewhere else”.

   We Americans have decided, as a society, that we won’t tolerate discrimination in either the public or the private sector. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.

6. Calhoungal Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 4:37 pm

   It’s a CHRISTIAN-based university. Why would some idiot want to go there and advocate abortion?

7. John Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 7:27 pm

   Liberty was founded to expressly instill certain values within its student body and curriculum. In fact, all of the earliest universities in this country were started with their express purpose well-known, most of them being religious.

   It’s only within the last few decades that there has been the trend to try and make all universities follow a normative code which teaches “the only thing that won’t be tolerated is intolerance” and then some bureaucracy or government agency defines what they view as “intolerance”. And then those with might and power force their opinions upon others.

   Teaching at a public university, it is only with great fear and trepidation that you say something which goes against the grain, because the heavy hand of the thought regulators will come down upon you. This is not academic diversity, it is academic uniformity.

   Universities are more like churches or specialized political parties than restaurants or country clubs– if you don’t like what they believe you either quietly go along with it or you leave. This is making distinctions based upon core convictions, not upon physical appearance or lineage.

8. T. Affholter Says:
   July 1st, 2009 at 8:32 pm

   There are two seperate issues here with respect to the club and advisor. I am now clear as to why the author attempted to make a correlation. If you are going to defend the advisor, present the entire story. Is it being implied that the school used the assault charge as an excuse to remove the faculty member for supporting an action that flies in the face of the schools mission? Further, had this been a male instructor assaulting a wife there would have been little sympathy. Assault is assault and unless in self-defence or in specific defense of the indefensive, it is wrong. Don’t sugar coat it.

   They are a Christian school. I recall being lambased several years ago for stating that it is wrong for a school to allow a Gay/Lesbian club while denying a Christian club. At a public institution everyone should have a right to assemble. I made it clear I support students having both clubs. Perhaps you could sadly argue that religion has no academic place at a public university. What do you expect when you attend a Christian university?

9. Lynn Says:
   July 2nd, 2009 at 8:04 am

   Just because one is a Christian does not automatically make one anti-abortion. I am a Christian and I support a woman’s right to choose.

10. Paul Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 8:29 am

    1. “Christian” does not imply “anti-abortion”. Notably, the Bible does not say that abortion is wrong, let alone ban it or require Christians to oppose it.

    2. No-one is advocating abortion. That’s a sad little strawman argument that the anti-abortion rights people pull out over and over again, reflecting the deep dishonesty of the anti-abortion rights movement.

11. Tim Says:
    July 2nd, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    John says: “Teaching at a public university, it is only with great fear and trepidation that you say something which goes against the grain, because the heavy hand of the thought regulators will come down upon you. This is not academic diversity, it is academic uniformity.” This is one of those lies constantly repeated by right wingers to justify their intolerance.

    I teach at a public university in one of the most liberal sections of the country. Yet, in my classes, I have a great deal of give-and-take between conservative and liberal students (I teach in Political Science, so the opportunities are many). I teach in a balanced manner and include, in my curriculum, serious discussions of conservative views (e.g. neo-liberal economic thought) and radical views (e.g., Marxism), and a lot in between. I do not preach. Never have. My objective is for students to become critical thinkers. Most of my colleagues (there are exceptions, of course) are the same.

    Recently, we had a student complain that no faculty on campus would serve as academic advisor for his “Young Republicans Club.” He sent an acerbic e-mail to the POLS faculty complaining about the liberal bent on campus. Significantly, though, this young Republican had not previously asked anyone in the department to sponsor his club. Several of my colleagues volunteered, but he never responded to us. (And, by the way, many faculty do not want to serve as club advisors because it is uncompensated work.) My point is: perception is not reality and often times stereotyped perceptions are just plain wrong. John is wrong.

12. Dee Says:
    July 3rd, 2009 at 9:06 am

    It is my understanding from directly contacting Liberty University professors that the club is still welcome to meet, that the university simply retracted funding that hinges on following Liberty’s policies for clubs. This club knew the policy, agreed to it, and then directly acted in opposition to it after initially receiving the monies. Liberty had actually given them the same funds that all other clubs receive that are university sponsored. After violating policy, the club then cried foul.

    According the faculty member, Liberty worked as any university would and held to their established club policy for this group, as they did for all groups. There is apparently more to the story than the press is allowing, as there often is in such matters as these.

    Lastly, the faculty member mentioned that students are aware of the university policy when they form any group on campus and that other groups when not following policy either change to meet policy or disband, but they do not whine and throw a fit, calling the media in show how “they are wronged” when not following established policy.

    I teach and administrate for a public university, and have seen departmental emails advocating gatekeeping Christian counseling students because they (assumed, of course) will not advocate abortion and homosexual marriage. These students that are targeted in this particular program are at the top of their program academically, and are following all university policies and procedures.

    I am personally more concerned that as public universities that we cannot model the tolerance for and appreciation of the diversity that we expect from private universities like Liberty University. We somehow don’t see in ourselves what we are accusing others of.

13. Catherine Says:
    July 8th, 2009 at 11:05 am

    From Dee’s message: “John says: “Teaching at a public university, it is only with great fear and trepidation that you say something which goes against the grain, because the heavy hand of the thought regulators will come down upon you. This is not academic diversity, it is academic uniformity.” This is one of those lies constantly repeated by right wingers to justify their intolerance.”

    I totally agree with John. I work at a state university where the political breakdown is almost 95% liberal for faculty and 75% conservative for staff. Dee simply doesn’t see John’s perspective, because to her, the liberal thought process is entirely reasonable. However, as a conservative staff member on a smaller California state university campus, I can tell you I see this inability to recognize the liberal bent on a daily basis. Conservative Christian professors thing long and hard before inserting anything that would rock the boat. Conservative Christian students are privately ridiculed by faculty members when they present their perspective. They are considered ‘disruptive’ simply because they are brave enough to speak up with a conflicting argument or Biblical answer. ALL students are expected to fall into line with the humanatarian viewpoint, accepting and tolerant of behaviors clearly at odds with the standard Christian viewpoint; to argue otherwise in a classroom is verboten and discouraged because it throws off the syllabi schedule. Diversity is accepted only if the outcome is acceptance and in line with the liberal political view.

14. Dee Says:
    July 8th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Catherine – I agree with what you are saying – perhaps I was not clear, and for that I apologize. Let me summarize – the media is belittling or lambasting a Christian school for not giving a liberal club special liberties and allowances that no one else gets; however, the state schools are attempting to keep out Christian students who are at the top of their classes and who are following all the rules set by the university and the media never promotes the accomplishments of the conservative students. There is an inequality that should not exist.

    In other words, the liberal students are lauded for breaking the rules and the conservative students are not even recognized when their achievement clearly (in this specific situation) outperformed the more liberal end of the spectrum. I have often heard and seen instructors ridicule their conservative students and military students, while giving all kinds of special privileges to the liberal students. It is vastly unfair and should not be tolerated, but sadly, it is.

    Thank you for the discussion!

15. Fred Says:
    July 8th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    David Says:

    The equivalents listed are not equivalent.
    A more appropriate equivalent would be:
    At a jewish school, a club organizes and then advocates that one should have a free choice about killing jews.
    At a black school, a club organizes and then advocates that one should have a free choice about burning crosses on black people’s lawns.

    ORIGINAL POST QUOTED BELOW
    July 1st, 2009 at 2:09 pm
    Let’s look at some equivalents of the “if you don’t like it, go somewhere else” argument:

    “If a restaurant refuses to serve blacks, just go somewhere else”.
    “If that country club won’t admit Jews, just go somewhere else”.

    We Americans have decided, as a society, that we won’t tolerate discrimination in either the public or the private sector. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.

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