12 Responses to “How much is military training worth?”

1. TL Says:
   September 16th, 2009 at 10:57 am

   This is particularly an issue for veterans who have been involved in the medical services and are interested in pursuing a field in nursing or one of the other areas of health care. Often there is no credit given for their in-the-field, hands-on-training experience by institutions offering bachelor degree programs in nursing or the health care sciences.

2. Bill Says:
   September 16th, 2009 at 11:13 am

   A lot of colleges are prejudiced against the military and veterans. Yes, it may be difficult to relate that military experience to a particular course at the college, but I think in a lot of instances it is outright dislike of anything military.

3. Donald Johnson Says:
   September 16th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

   In your article, you said 20% of colleges and universities will not grant credit for mililtary training and experience, that means 80% will. All colleges and universities have their own individual policies regarding non-traditional learning. Many colleges will grant credit based upon the American Council on Education’s (ACE) review of military training and the resulting credit recommendations. The challenge often is that the type of learning and credit recommended may not line up with a student’s academic degree program. In your example of a veteran’s training in nuclear engineering, the ACE credit recommendations may not match up with the specific requirements in an Early Childhood degree or a Nursing degree, etc. At my institution, a commuity college in close proximity to an Army post, a service person or veteran could choose an associates degree program where a 1/2 to 3/4 of the degree program could be fullfilled with non-traditional learning credits OR the individual could choose a degree where very little credit would be applicable. The topic of your article is certainly one that needs to be discussed in academia; however, the conclusion you provided in your opening paragraph is not a very accurate one. If 80% of the colleges and universities DO award credits for military training and experience, then active duty service people, reservists, and veterans have a lot of academic choices! They could choose to attend an institution that does not recognize the military non-traditional learning or choose to attend one of the other veteran-friendly, SOC institutions that do.

4. Bill Stewart Says:
   September 16th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

   As Mr. Johnson stated, it’s more important to point out that 80% of colleges do give credit for training received in the military. Just as valuable is to understand what kinds of military training qualifies for college-level credit. Much of the training one receives while serving our country is in career-oriented fields. For example, if you are in charge of a military base exchange, you will have been trained in areas such as inventory management, merchandising, and similar areas. Many employers may not understand how this training translates into a civilian occupation. In order to hold a particular rating in a given military occupation specialty (MOS) you must have successfully completed certain college-level equivalent course work. So, by accepting military training for credit, the clear majority of college in the U.S. are enabling military personnel and veterans to use their training to obtain a degree — a credential that civilian employers can and do understand. At my college we award more than 50,000 college credits each year for military training among the more than 9,000 active duty, reserve and veteran personnel that are enrolled in our various programs.

5. Maureen Page Says:
   September 16th, 2009 at 7:06 pm

   I am sure, as Mr. Johnson and Mr. Stewart point out, a lot will depend on the degree program the vet/student is pursuing – however, what numbskull would not allow credits from ANY PE program to any vet from any of the armed services. Our military are in better physical shape than any academician (or GTA) – and have proven it time and time again with PE tests at regular intervals. Yes, Virginia, jumping out of planes does require great physical prowess – far supassing that needed to pass scuba class – unless, of course, it were a course in underwater demolitions – now that’s tough.
   I, too, believe that there is a decided dislike (that’s the most polite term I could think of) for all things military; demonstrated by the far too common view in academe that all vets must be “bark biters,” so they don’t fit in our world. This might be anicdotal – but I have seen it so often that it does, and it should, give great concern.
   I do not expect the Univ. of Texas to give my son a degree in “Infantry” – there’s not a lot that humping an M16 through the sandbox known as Iraq would translate to in the civilian world. But there are courses in leadership, history, and most certainly, PE that would very well work into a transcript.
   I would like to see the head of the Univ. of Missouri Athletic Dept. get into a hand-to-hand pit with that young man requesting PE credits for airbourne experience, and the one who emerges gets the credit.

6. Mary Jo Says:
   September 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

   I think this is an area where the military benefits coordinators need to get involved. There are independent groups that translate GPAs and the quality of course work for international students to apply to and transfer courses to colleges and universities in the U.S. It seems like the same thing could be done with military training. I understand that the military’s benefits coordinators are likely very busy right now. But this may be a good opportunitiy to hire more. Veterans need jobs after all.

7. Donald Johnson Says:
   September 17th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

   When a military service school, say the U.S. Army Infantry School at Fort Benning, GA, wants to have its training programs evaluated for college credit, the school will contract with the American Council on Education (ACE). ACE then contracts with university professors from various institutions around the country and sends them to Fort Benning. This group of professors, who are subject matter experts in their particular academic fields, reviews the program of instruction to see if the learning outcomes are similar to those taught in typical vocational schools, colleges, and universities. Often the learning outcomes are similar. At other times, the outcomes may be too military or war-fighting oriented even though they might be some-what related to courses of study at a typical college or university. When there are similarities, the professors will make credit recommendations. These recommendations are published in the ACE Guide to Evaluation of Educational Experiences in the Armed Services. When a student provides the proper documentation about military training experiences which has the ACE credit recommendations listed to an institution, the institution’s transfer credit office will make the determination as to whether the ACE credit recommendations would be applicable to the student’s degree program in alignment with the individual institution’s transfer credit policies. Keep in mind, there are many other times that a college or university will not even accept credits from other colleges and/or universities, though the credits are considered to be more traditional learning experiences in a college’s typical classrooms. Carin Ford’s original comments that a student’s military learning experiences are not valued in academia because 20% of all colleges and universities will not recognize them is simply misleading. The OTHER 80% of America’s colleges and universities DO recognize and value these non-traditional learning experiences. A veteran, now armed with the enhanced benefits of the Chapter 33, Post 9/11 GI Bill, will need to review an insitution’s policies on military learning experiences, as well as many other academic factors, and pursue his/her higher educational goals (and spending his/her GI Bill monies) at one of the OTHER 80%, veteran-friendly colleges or universities.

8. Ben Hostetler Says:
   September 17th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

   One of the bigger problems is that even with the SOC and ACE credit system alot of colleges do not know what degree plan to match with a specific Rate/MOS/NEC for military. Of course a paratroopers training pipeline will not match up to a degree in Aerospace Engineering (Although jump school is arduous in its own right, and probably should be its own degree for just getting through it). What colleges should be doing is instead of putting VA Liasons just to deal with the benefits side, is to have someone do an analysis of the pipelines the military has. SOC does this but not all bigger Universities are SOC members. 80% may take military credits, but the majority of them will probably just lump them into a physical education credit and a few general electives and leave the remaining core classes because they know that any service member who comes through the door is garunteed money for the University since the new GI Bill pays for everything. In an economy such as ours its not surprising that colleges wouldn’t take all military experience…its not cost effective. Although, in my opinion, the level of expertise that is required for certain jobs in the military is far above the apprentice level that some students who come straight out of college have. If you place someone who has a BS in Electrical Engineering with a 2.2 GPA and then compare the troubleshooting skills of a 3 year Fire Controlman in the Navy who knows that if their weapon system isn’t operating someone may die you will see a stark contrast in their analytical skills and troubleshooting procedures of the same basic circuit. These are skills that are beyond measure and unfortunately probably will never be analyzed due to the cost effectiveness of it. At least thats my two cents, and of course I’m a tad bias.

9. CPT Get a Degree Says:
   September 30th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

   Military training is only as valuable as the soldier willing to submit a copy of his or her military transcript to the school of choice. There are many military jobs across the services and differ according to occupation. Some military training translates well into transfer credit awarded upon the recommendations from the military transcript; others do not. There are many factors that affect this point. (1) Military job training that is very narrow in focus or more vocationally oriented, say truck driving, will have very few credit recommendations listed on the military transcript. However, other technical and vocational training like satellite communications can have a great deal of credit recommendations. (2) The degree being pursued by the troop has a great deal with the level of applicability of military training being translated into college credit. If I am in a transportation specialty, I am likely to have very little if any potential for transferring military training into college credit if I am pursuing a medical field degree. These types of things have to be kept in mind by the troop when selecting not only the school to attend but the degree to study and what military occupational specialty they held.

10. Christina Kulp Says:
    October 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    As a member of the military and a faculty at a university, I would say that most basic military education is not truly comparable to a university program. Most of the military classes I have taken the information is almost spoon fed because the emphasis is on learning the material and getting all students to pass. University educations often differ because the emphasis is on the student learning the material more on their own. Thus a military education is not always as rigorous as a college degree would be. This doesn’t mean the military education is bad, it means that the military insures students get it because the military is investing a lot of money in that student. A university student however is paying for their education and is expected to do more on their own. The other key difference is that in the military focuses on practical experience because the student needs to be able to execute and a university is oftem more theoretical. The issue is the two education systems don’t use the same training style, have different end states, and evaluate learning differently.

11. Donald Johnson Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Yes, military training is very hands-on, skill oriented training, and university study is more theoretical. I think that is the basis for the age-old debate about the differences between “training” and “education.” Still…..college’s do offer courses and degree programs that focus on hands-on, skill oriented training. A student who pursues a degree in automotive mechanics at a community or technical college may sit for the Automotive Service Excellence Certification Exams upon course completion. Soldiers may sit for the same Certification Exams after completing their military training courses (and some additional self-study). A student could pursue a degree with an aviation college or university that focuses on Air Traffic Control which would qualify the student to sit for the Federal Aviation Administration’s Air Traffic Control certification exam. A soldier has to pass the same FAA certification exam after training before working as a miltiary air traffic controller. However, a sailor who learns to maintain and/or operate the nuclear power plant that powers a submarine most likely will not learn all of the theories of physics and thermonuclear fusion that a student in a university would most likely learn. Conversely, a university student learning thermonuclear fusion will not learn how to maintain and/or operate the nuclear power plant of a submarine. There may be some simliarities in the learning experiences, but far greated differences exist. So…as Professor Kulp points out, it is the qualitative nature of the learning that is the distinction between military training and college/university course work and the basis for why some military credits may not be recognized by colleges and universities. Still, for many military training experiences the qualitative distinctions may not exist. My college offers a Registered Nursing degree, but it will not apply ACE recommended credits for military medic training towards the specific required nursing classes. The knowledges and skills the military medic learns are only a few of the knowledges and skills taught in our first nursing course. Some military medics attend additional training to become Licensed Practical Nurses, but in the state where my college is located, LPN study is not college level study. We may still award the ACE credits as nursing electives. Such nursing elective credits are applicable to the student’s degree program wherever Free Electives, if any, are required. Military medics and civilian LPNs can still seek advanced standing in our nursing program with additional academic and clinical skill testing to ensure they HAVE gained the pre-requisite kowledges and skills required for our next nursing course in the sequence. Still, for a vetern with military training credits, the question remains regarding his/her academic/professional goals and the institutional choices they make. The can CHOOSE to attend a college or university that recognizes their ACE credits and applies them to their degree program OR they can CHOOSE to attend a college or university despite the fact that their military training experiences are not recognized because that college or university offers the academic degree and/or learning experience they are specifically seeking.

12. JAM Says:
    January 31st, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    It all comes down to money. Out of the students pocket, and into the pockets of the colleges. If you are in a techincal field such as an electrician, then you only get the 1st year accepted. That is crazy, our technical school is almost a year long, close to 1150 semseter hours, plus the upgrade trainging, and your OJT. We put in a lot of hard work and time to only be snubbed because the credits does not come from a school within that state. Medical also is a huge one because 90% of their time in class and training is negated because they do not trust the military schools. Give me a break. It should be made to even out. If you are talking AA degrees and certification you can get most of the credits accepted, yet you must do your homework and find the Military friendly schools. When it comes to that BA you are more than likely to get a portion of the 1st year accepted and the rest you will have to grind it out. Be smart and creative find a community college that is military friendly, and then see which university has a brother or sister program that will transfer your credits. That way you get the most mileage out of your money, and time.

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