New grad can’t find job — so sues college
August 20, 2009 by Tom D'AgostinoPosted in: From the Courts, In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views
A recent graduate of a New York college is having trouble landing a job. But is it the college’s fault? She thinks so — and that’s why she’s suing.
Recent Monroe College grad Trina Thompson completed her course of studies in April and graduated with a bachelor of business administration degree in information technology. But Thompson is still searching for a job, and she says the school hasn’t done enough to help her.
Thompson claims the school’s office of career advancement dropped the ball by failing to give her enough career counseling assistance. She says it’s the school’s fault that her phone’s not ringing with calls from potential employers. “They have not tried hard enough to help,” she claims.
Thompson’s suit has asked that the college be forced to return the tuition she paid – all $70,000 of it. For good measure, she wants another $2,000 to compensate her “for the stress I have been going through looking for a full time job on my own.”
The school says on its Web site that its Office of Career Advancement offers a variety of services to all current students, including workshops and individual career counseling services. It insists the suit is meritless.
How much should schools do to help its new graduates find jobs? Tell us what you think in the comments section below.
Tags: career counseling services, job placement, Monroe College
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August 19th, 2009 at 8:30 am
I won’t hire her… a college graduate who can’t even spell tuition.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:32 am
What a load of bull. A school can’t be held liable for this.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:34 am
And reimbursement and defendant, among other things. You think the lawyer would have coached her on this. The school should sue and take her diploma away.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Poor thing. I guess it would have been the school’s fault if she got a bad grade too. The younger generation is lazy. They have this sense of entitlement that is completely unwarranted. The parents are not doing their children justice by giving them this cake-life. When I got out of college the first time, it took over a year to find a decent job – and that wasn’t in THIS job market! The fact that she is suing for her tuition as well??? Give me a break – I’m sure she worked her way through college and SHE paid all of the $70,000 – not her parents; not grants or loans. SHE wants the money. Does she want to give back her degree too?
August 19th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Not only should this joke of a lawsuit be thrown out, but the girl should be handed a bill for every penny it cost to throw the paperwork in the garbage. There should be an additional $50 charge for the dictionary she is provided with a bookmark in the page labelled “personal responsibility”. If she still doesn’t get it, then maybe a slap in the mouth would knock some of the stupid out of her…
August 19th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I agree with everything Brandi had to say, and I’m terrified that we’re not really all that far away from this student and her peers finding jobs as lawyers. They will eventually become activist judges who see actions like this as meritorious! We can’t simply dismiss this as the foolishness it is, because the reality will change.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Oh give me a break. I’m going to sue everyone that ever supported my efforts to get where I am today because my life didn’t turn out as I expected. Yea right…
August 19th, 2009 at 9:11 am
I’ve been out of college for 20 years and FINALLY paid off my student loan. But it took a fat $7,000 check to finally get rid of it. I blame the college for telling me that it was OK to major in Art. Right!
August 19th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I am surprised she found the right paperwork to file! Thank God most kids are not this dumb and many kids still believe you have to work for what you want – too bad this College didn’t teach her that.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:22 am
You have GOT to be kidding me! Maybe she should try developing a personality and take some responsibility. As it is, I KNOW I wouldn’t hire her. She might sue because she wet herself when someone didn’t lead her to the bathroom. What would be interesting to know is what kind of jobs is she applying for. I bet they’re all jobs that require years of experience and a degree… well by golly she DESERVES to be handed that job. God forbid she should actually work up to a position!
August 19th, 2009 at 9:26 am
If she thought her job prospects were dismal before, wait until prospective employers see what a litigious little lady she is. “I’m suing my employer because the office coffee was cold and I suffered emotional and epicurean distress. Plus, the guy in the next cubicle looked at me funny.”
That’s apart from her obvious grammar, syntax and spelling deficiencies, as Tuition Fee noted. She also had trouble with associate’s degree (Associate Degree), bachelor’s degree (Bachelor Degree), reimbursement (reinbursment), counselors (couselors), an interview (a interview) and suing (sueing).
Kinda makes one wonder how she was able to earn a degree in the first place.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:28 am
The “poor young thing” is an idiot. And her lawyer has done her a disservice by filing her suit. Both have destroyed her career.
I’ll never hire her. Nor will anyone I know. Her actions speak of someone who will sue an employer for any perceived slight (”I wasn’t promoted fast enough.”; “My office doesn’t get enough sunlight.”; “Everyone stares at me in my mini skirt and halter top.”; etc. etc. etc.) . Who needs the headache?
August 19th, 2009 at 9:37 am
As others have pointed out, this chick cannot spell and doesn’t know the basic rules of English grammar. Her resume and cover letters are probably the main reasons she cannot get an interview. Perhaps other alumni should sue the college, for lowering the value of their degrees by conferring degrees on dimbulbs like Ms. Thompson.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:45 am
well,
It really doesn`t matter what we all think of her. The fact is simple. She cannot and will not win because if she did, higher education as we know it would end. The universities would only be able to offer degrees with 100% placement, or they would be force to be personal job agents for the rest of their graduates lives.
You always know that a lawsuit with such consequences will not fly. Whatever judge or jury forced to decide this will also be forced to realize (by the defense) that their decision will crush the entire system. Nobody will have that courage.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:47 am
THE COURT CANNOT SPELL EITHER! LOOK AT PAGE FIVE!
August 19th, 2009 at 9:50 am
To all literary critics out there…Spell checking and/or grammar has NOTHING to do with the lawsuit.
August 19th, 2009 at 9:50 am
off with her head,
If she is too lazy to go find a job and wants everything handed to her then,
do the world a favor right now and save all the trouble of dealing with this individual in the future and sue for her life.
Yeah, this is extreme but, how many of you guys are tired with having to deal with people like this?
You know you wanted to say it. I said it first. End it now, save us the trouble later.
P.S. What else is she going to beg for in life? Here is an idea. Take her right to reproduce away. We dont want her raising kids to be this way either.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am
To buttthatsjustme: Spell checking or grammar may have nothing to do with the lawsuit per se, but if you were an employer reviewing resumes and cover letters, would you even read past the first couple of typos and misspellings? Methinks not. And perhaps therein lies (part of) her “can’t get no job” problem.
Then again, she probably had someone help her craft her resume and cover letter. So if there are misspellings and typos, it would be their fault, not hers. Anyone else smell another lawsuit in the air?
August 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am
All the School has to do is get her a job at McDonalds and they have fulfilled their duty. This falls into the range of their “variety of services to all current students”
August 19th, 2009 at 10:13 am
What kind of lawyer would even take this case? Is he just taking advantage of someone who is easy prey?
August 19th, 2009 at 10:27 am
This is outrageous!
August 19th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Now now, no one adequately helped her find a job, so perhaps no one wrote the cover letters and resumes for her after all.
I hope she gets a lot of press and is deemed untouchable by every employer worth working for.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:36 am
This is just ridculous, The schools sole purpose is to educate the students not to find them a job. Career services was there to help with the tools not finding the job. I know when I graduated in 1986 the Career services providing opportunities to interview with many companies and helped with resume development. A job search is an opportunity to sell yourself to an perspective employer not necessarily someone one else selling you. Obviously this person does not want to work but earn money from suing the people who helped her get her degree. I too think the degree should be taken away, just for ethical reassons
August 19th, 2009 at 10:41 am
This person is selfish, greedy, and only wants attention. And we are giving it to her by even reading and responding.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:43 am
My heart goes out to her but she is in the same boat as thousands of other recent graduates feeling the economic pinch, especially those graduating with degrees in art and music and physical education. But her problem goes much deeper that than. When are we parents , high schools counselors, and others going to start doing a better job with career counseling with our children before they set off to college? Instead, we tell them how “special” they are and that they can be anything they want to be. How unrealistic is this when we let them pursue a degree in art history, then after graduation they discover that there are no jobs in art history? In addition, they have not learned how to parley their skills into gainful employment. We need to start to have honest discussions with our children about life, careers, and responsibility
August 19th, 2009 at 10:46 am
WOW – I had to find my own job.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Wow! I have to agree with Brandi, as I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the story. Of course, I agree with everyone else as well but Brandi’s comment hit home because I returned to school in my mid thirties to earn a second bachelor’s degree. I was appalled at the lack of accoutability and what I refer to as an “air of expectancy” in many young people today. It sickens me. I’m afraid that Dave is right… this is the new reality and we should not dismiss it. The courts should not even entertain such frivolity.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:56 am
I agree with almost everything that was written above except for “…a slap in the mouth…” I thought we were wanted avoid a law suit. My concern with this law suit is not with the student but the Office of Career Advancement (Placement Office.)
I am wondering did Office of Career Advancement or any official of that University promise, guarantee or implied in anyway that their diploma will get this “cake-baby” a job when she graduated. Where did she get the ideal “…phone’s not ringing with calls from potential employers” from?
I personally think the law suit is weak but with a good lawyer you can convince a jury that it is McDonald fault for making a hot cup of coffee.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:58 am
She should sue her parents for passing on insufficient genes.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Outrageous…Yes…Should it be taken lightly…NO. Unfortunately, we in higher education only have ourselves to blame for this situation. First, the president, board of trustees, and the entire English faculty ought to resign in disgrace over the fact that they GAVE a COLLEGE DEGREE to someone who can not spell!
Second, colleges have turned into diploma mills and job training centers rather than institutions of higher learning. The business model has been promoted tirelessly for some time. In this model, students are either seen as consumers of a product (education) or as products themselves. In either case, when the product is faulty, than the consumer (parents, the student, society) can sue. Before you know it, Consumer Reports not US News and World Reports will be producing the “Best Colleges” issue and the Consumer Protection Agency not the Department of Education or the accrediting bodies will be accrediting universities. And I’m sure the proprietary schools are loving every minute of this!
August 19th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Trina and Dave have something in common. They don’t get it. Hard work and perserverance pay off. I am really sick of the entitlement attitutde of young adults. Get an education; find a job; get a life; and move on. It is not the responsibility of the college to find you a job; rather it is the responsibility of the student to find the job/career. Christine hit it on the head, NO ACCOUNTABILITY!! It is never the fault of the younger ones. They are the victim. I hope that Dave is not right. I hope the courts do not ever become so liberal as to even think about entertaining this frivolous lawsuit. I do think that career counselors and advisors are extremely important and perhaps Trina was let down (a little) by them. At the end of the day, Trina should look in the mirror and blame herself. The econmy sucks, but there are jobs out there.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Needless to say this is a sad situation. One of the hardest, but most necessary things about becoming an adult is realizing you carry your life on your own shoulders now. But your head has to be set in the right direction. There are no guarantees, you have to start at the bottom, and proving yourself in a work environment is necessary for success, but it may not be attained. This is reality, and it is not new.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:18 am
This is why we need tort reform. And we need more of our young people to take rersponsibility for their own lives rather than blame someone else fro their problems.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:20 am
As for the spelling errors, Trina did not type this article nor did anyone who might have helped her with her cover letter, etc. It was the person that posted it at this site who made these errors. That brings me to be a little more cautious about the ’statements’ or ‘facts’ presented here to entice people to read this piece. On the other side, I agree with what everyone has commented on. Maybe part of the problem is that she has only a bachelor’s degree in B.A. All I hear and see on that ‘cathode ray tube’ (flat screen to you youngsters) is Masters, MastERS, MASTERS in B.A.
Editor’s Response: The errors pointed out in some comments exist in the plaintiff’s court filing. The editors of Higher Ed Morning did not participate in any way with that filing or any other court proceedings in this case.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:20 am
She’s suing her college for the wrong thing. She obviously has not learned how to write, nor has she learned the ethics of personal responsibility. She should sue them for granting her a diploma that she hasn’t earned.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I know that I have already commented on this subject but I think this needs further comment. This is a sad situation, however it is not sad because she can not find a job or that she has not recognized that she must carry her life on her own shoulders but that a Lawyer convinced her that she could win this case. If she wins this class it will set a precedence that I do not believe we want to see. What this would mean is that if a student flunked out of school, the school could be sued for a breach of duties regarding educating the student. I think this student should be ashamed at what she is doing and in addition the Lawyer should be disbarred for his/her involvement.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Unbelieveable, if she wins I quit. 18+ years I’ve been teaching I’ve been watching students go from digilent to lazy. This generation is spoiled and thinks everything should be given to them. (No offense to those few young folks who actually work hard for what they get).
August 19th, 2009 at 11:28 am
My brother has been laid of for two years! Who do we sue!
Anyone notice (page 5) asking for 70,000 + 2,000 but default settlement is 75,000
August 19th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Before I pass judgment, I have some questions.
*Is Monroe College a real college or is it a trade school with “college” in its name?
*When she says they didn’t help, is she talking about evaluating her resume and her interviewing skills, or does she actually expect them to find her a job?
*Did they promise to find her a job when they recruited her?
*Do they report placement rates in their recruiting materials that are higher than their actual placement rates?
It is obvious you folks are biased. You have already made up your minds without knowing the facts. I wish you all were more open minded and inquisitive instead of being judgmental.
Perhaps you should read the following editorial on this case http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/money-trail/2009/08/12/sue-school?page=full
August 19th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Wow, we live in a changing world. People belive they have a right to everything. I would bet the jobs she has applied for are not entry level positions. Given her brass – you owe me – attitude I am sure she has not been applying for lower paying entry level positions. It would be interesting to read her resumee and cover letter along with a list of positions applied for. I also agree if she wants her money back they she is asking to return the product she purchased – her degree. The college might want to consider this a good deal and not have her listed as one of their graduates.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Madmonk: The spelling and grammar errors are in her own hand on the court documents attached to the article that someone else wrote.
These documents are part of “the ’statements’ or ‘facts’ presented here to entice people to read this piece.”
August 19th, 2009 at 11:51 am
I think it’s wrong to sue anyone or any entity. This is the school’s fault for not defusing her before she went into law suit mode. I think there is a real lack of honesty and accountability at schools to admit when they make an error and fix it. If they had given her more attention she may have reconsidered. But do think for a moment what these kids are up against. A horrible economy # 1. A large debt that they cannot sell, that’s right at least with a home loan you have equity in it. (the debt is equal to if not more than a home loan) Here is the real issue, some colleges guarantee placement into a job following college in their commercials, they speak of competitiveness against other graduates and then you graduate and you cannot find work. Here’s a question to ask yourself if you purchased a product that cost $70K, and the salesman promised you would have x result by the end of a year would you be upset if it did not work. Schools are providing a service, it is a means to become gainfully employed. If that doesn’t pan out you might get a little upset. Most of these kids are not expecting much believe it or not. They just want work that will help them pay off their student loans and build a family, maybe someday even stop renting a tiny apartment well into their mid thirties, early fourties. But alas they cannot because employers also want experience on top of that degree. So do try to understand the frustration and the inequities that these kids face since my Father told me that it was very inexpensive to attend college when he was younger, just not many people did. So who’s lazy! These kids will work for free at an internship then to only find it has ended and they are not taking on full time workers. Oh and no health insurance benefits. And if they are expectant of certain things it’s only the people who raised them to blame with their McMansions and consumeristic lifestyles. No it’s not telling them that they are special, it’s telling them that there is opportunity where there is none. I am in my late twenties and I have been telling people that this credit crash was coming since 2004, and everyone looked at me like I was crazy. Then they lost huge chunks of their 401K’s so can you blame her for not seeing this coming most people do not have the forsight to see what is coming or not coming in their lives. Therefor a school’s message must be loud and clear, be realistic with opportunities given to graduates. Give them statistics on places graduates, and yes tell them they could be in the 5% that cannot find work after graduation.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:58 am
RE: Jeremy — Started reading the editorial and it’s obvious to me as others have noted that she is suing for the wrong reason. She should be suing for not receiving the education she paid for, not suing because the college didn’t find her a job.
As the editorial points out, she paid more money for a less “recognizable” degree. Most likely because she didn’t have the time or desire to spend “real” time with her education. She paid out the nose (double what she could have at a “community” college?) to get a degree. She paid for a shortcut and now it’s not paying out for her. To expect a degree of any kind to automatically get you a job is ludicrous. To pay money to a “college” that gives you a “degree” without requiring the actual class work or learning, well, I’ll just say I think she got what she paid for, a high priced piece of paper.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:59 am
This young lady is performing a service to the academic community, by reminding us that academia is not a business. The fact that she doesn’t have a job is not my concern, but I take note of her courageous stretch to the law. I, unlike the cynics that have posted before, am not prepared to attribute her intentions to greed and laziness.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:59 am
If I were Monroe College, I would negotiate a settlement wherein the student would withdraw the lawsuit and the college would post-withdraw her as though she never attended. I wouldn’t want her on my alumni list let alone her telling folks she had a degree from Monroe. How embarrassng it has become to see an “adult” acting like a spoiled pubescent child. In today’s world of the “hovering” parent, this particular scenario does not surprise me at all.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Depends on what you consider a “college”.
Monroe ‘College’ is a VOCATIONAL SCHOOL, and not a particularly good one at that.
This poor woman would have been better off getting a degree at a community college or public 4-year school, rather than this nefarious diploma mill.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Poor baby… Welcome to the REAL WORLD…! Opportunities are not handed to you, YOU need to go out and GET IT…! If you think you had problems finding a job before… Good luck finding a job at McDonalds at this point, now that your name has been smeared ALL OVER the United States…! NO ONE will ever hire you now, they would be afraid of a frivolous lawsuit if you were to get a paper cut… Good luck, your going need it…!
August 19th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
The Wikipedia entry on Monroe College says that this person had an average of 2.7. I’m sure that this is well below average.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
It wasn’t the college’s job to teach this young woman that one has to work for what one wants. If that lesson wasn’t instilled before she reached age 18, that’s unfortunate, but it’s not a college lesson.
There is, however, a lesson that she will learn, and for which she will pay dearly: one can always find lawyers willing to take up frivolous lawsuits, who, whether billing on the sixes or the quarter, turn out to be the only ‘winners’ when all is said and done.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I would say it depended on what she was promised going in. I know that when I went to a certain school, I was told it had a “100%” placement rate and had an active, professional placement program that would work vigorously with me to find a position upon graduation. I made that very clear in my initial negotiations that it was critically important to me that I not only end up with the diploma, but that placement assistance be available afterwards. I asked to see statistics – and, being young and foolish, I accepted the numbers the recruiter provided as proof of what was promised. What they did not tell me was that the numbers included about 75% of the graduates being counted as having been “placed” when they were working in the same jobs they’d held prior to entering the program, and that the other 15-20% were considered placed if they were working anywhere at all (including behind the paint counter at a local hardware store) through no intervention or assistance of the department or school whatsoever. (They actually did have one or two people who had gotten internships with the feds based on having been in the program, so I can give them that these could realistically be counted as “placements” since reference letters were written for them by faculty.) There was no placement efforts by the department for any of us (it wasn’t just me, quite sadly) and the “career center” on campus had never heard of the major. They literally had to ask a few of us who went to see them as a group what it was we studied and what “we did with that.” So, basically, what I got was not what was advertised – a package of “education” and placement. If the placement part had not been in the initially offered package, I would have definitely not enrolled in that institution. So, given all of that, I have to say that if the young lady was promised a professional placement service upon completion of her program of study, then, yes, she should sue the pants off them IF they are not providing that service. It was false advertising. Fraud. I wish I’d have had enough sense to have done the same, back in the day…. However, if they are making a serious, professional effort to place her and the jobs just aren’t there or something else is keeping her from being placed, that’s another matter entirely. It’s certainly not something we can make any realistic judgment calls on from the peanut gallery here.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
I had the misfortune of working for a recent graduate of an MBA program, when she was handed a job just because she “earned” the degree. It was quite an eye-opener, to listen to her banging on endlessly about her perceived entitlements. Rather than working, she spent her time constantly venting about how she was cheated on her salary. She honestly believed that she should have been hired in at the same salary as the departing PhD employee, who had been with the employer for 20+ years. She also believed that she should be able to bring her newborn infant to work with her, and upon being told that she needed to make other arrangements for him, she flew into a rage and shared with me that “they had to provide her with a place to breastfeed.” Uh…no….since you aren’t supposed to bring your children to work with you…that is just moronic thinking. It is very distressing to see the results of the hovering parent, who has told their little precious that the world is theirs for the taking. Too bad the rest of the world needs to be on board with that notion, before it will pan out. I hate to think what the workplace will be like, once it is filled with these self-involved infants.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
If she sues the school and wins (anything can happens) then they should taka her degree away.
If she thinks that education is costly she should try ignorance.
Kindly advise her to get an advance degree as MS in IT.
Do not give up and please do not blame the school.
Best luck
August 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Hey Folks,
Jeremy is right on this one. Like most of you, I fell into the category of passing judgement before knowing all the facts. Indeed, Monroe is a vocational/tech school that tries to package itself as a “college.” Many for-profit schools, like Monroe, can be predatory since the loans they give to students are subsidized by the government. A recent AP article reported that for-profit schools are boosting enrollment using subsidized government loans (I speculate government funds have increased under the Obama administration). http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2009/08/14/D9A2QVHO0_us_for_profit_colleges_loans/print.html
The plaintiff in this case is trying to recoup money lost (though it’s not known how much is in grants vs loans, but I suspect most of it is loans). She may very well default on her loans (9.5% of Monroe students) in which case taxpayers get stuck with the bill. She probably won’t win, but at the very least a case like this brings attention to what I see as a serious issue, and there are questions that need answering. Be sure to take a look at the link Jeremy provided.
August 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
BOTH are to blame. On the one hand, the school is responsible for passing her when she may not have been up to standard. Many profs are pressured into high passing ratios in their courses, so they pass them or let them cheat their way through the exams. I’ve seen it. They expect to pass because they paid or showed up, had their parents call the chair. They’re OWED and shouldn’t have to struggle bc now they have a diploma. Apologies to those 20-30% who are diligent and make a true effort… on the other hand, we have been tricked into believing that this is exactly what a college education guarantees. Ads filled with promises of a lucrative career and a Pier One lifestyle…
August 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
>>She says it’s the school’s fault that her phone’s not ringing with calls from potential employers.<<
Is she just waiting for her phone to ring, or is she ringing up her potential employers too?
August 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Jeremy said:
“Before I pass judgment, I have some questions.”
Thank you, Jeremy, for looking for the facts of the situation rather than just jumping in and sneering at this woman. I don’t see many of these responders using the scientific method that they are imposing upon Thompson. It’s easy to assume, not so easy to investigate.
“Perhaps you should read the following editorial on this case http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/money-trail/2009/08/12/sue-school?page=full“
August 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Hey people, stop blaming this on lawyers. There is no lawyer in this case; she is proceeding pro se & was succeeded in getting fees waived.
I’d blame TV lawyers and new organizations that report these cases without noting that the plaintiff is filing on their own behalf, expending no more effort than it takes to fill in a few forms with a ballpoint pen. The suing graduate makes no recognizable legal argument (fraud, contract, etc.) so it is extremely unlikely she talked to any attorneys. Most of these outrageous lawsuits are filed without attorneys; I’m a librarian and I see pro se litigants everyday complaining that lawyers won’t take their case.
If there is a legitimate problem here (that is, one that involves a pattern of fraud that impacts dozens of graduates), the NY attorney general should investigate.
August 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Whatever happened to learning for learning’s sake? Yes, finding a job is important, but it’s the knowledge that one gets from college that leads to the career path not just a piece of paper (diploma) which leads to a high-level first job. No one is interested in learning anymore.
Plus, the economy is the worst it has been in years – of course that impacts one’s ability to find a job. There are plenty of people with 20+ years of experience who are applying to the same jobs this recent grad is pursuing.
And, I agree with the person who said to take her diploma away.
This lawsuit is just ridiculous, and it would lead to the demise of higher education.
August 19th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I’ve graduated from two colleges, neither of which forund me a job. Can I recoup my tuition cost? You poor baby!
August 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I want to again comment, I want to also compliment Jeremy for his research, however with my comments before I too did some research and am not jumping to conclusions. It does not really matter what kind of school this is Vocational or non Vocational. The only promise a school makes to its students is to try to prepare them for the job market. I do not believe any of us mean to pass Judgement on the school or the person who is bringing suit. Our comments are more that to bring suit against the school is like bringing a lawsuit against a railroad company whose train hit a person because the person choose to walk on the tracks. If the education was as advertised and this person attended the prescribed classes to graduate then the school has done its job. If the student did not do very well but still had the credentials to graduate than the school has done its job. The placement office can put the student in front of employers but can not tell the companies or entities to hire the student. If all of this was done then the school should not be liable to this student. If the school did not do what it advertised then a settlement should be made, but in this case I do not believe this to be the case. Times are tough right now for job seekers and that must be considered here.
August 19th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I think the graduate has a point.
Please speak for yourself, but many of these colleges promise more than they can deliver – of course for a fee. For example, why would a college charge a young person just starting out her life $70,000?
This also speaks to the general escalating cost of (college) education. Does the cost-benefit analysis justify what these colleges are charging anymore? Most college graduates will be lucky to get a job paying $30,000, yet colleges don’t blink asking for that much a year in tuition, dorm, etc.
Then they won’t deliver they semi-guaranteed. Just look at the brochures of these diploma mills (and I am not calling Monroe DM). Take a look and see how they never even mention the possiblity that the student may not get a job. Just pay, pay, pay – get your diploma and you are on your own!
If she was unprepared, as suggested, why did they graduate her? What happened to telling her at some point that she would be unemployed? Of course, they were blinded by the MONEY.
I hope she wins, so others can sue too.
August 19th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
This young lady needs to get a clue. No. She needs to get a brain. No. She needs to get a brain that works! Is she totally clueless to think a career center is in the “placement” business? These people provides career services to help students manage their career and coach them into being as competitive as possible in the job market. Placement? I think not. Get the knowledge from the career people and do the work! I’m sick of people like this young lady who seem to want A JOB (of all things) HANDED to her. Even if she was “placed”, my guess is she probably wouldn’t know what to do when she got there. So sad.
August 19th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
The saying “caveat emptor” certainly applies here. There are many institutions of higher learning like Monroe College. As a private enterprise of education its main purpose is to generate profit and to care less about the overall educational growth of its students. The proof of this is observed in the student’s writing. Numerous words were misspelled, and proper names not capitalized. The student is in need of remediation in English composition.
The student would have been off being educated at a public college or university. In a public institution of higher learning, emphasis is placed:
• On overall academic performance in areas such as Liberal Arts and Sciences, The Humanities and other academic studies. Public institutions have to develop qualified candidates for employment. Failure to do so makes the earned degree worthless and the reputation of institutions suffer.
• Public institutions of higher learning employ distinguish faculty in an attempt to ensure as best as possible that their students receive the best education possible.
• Remediation would have been given to the student so that the student can be elevated to the college level in English composition and other areas where remediation is needed.
• Career Service offices at colleges and universities offer extensive help in procuring employment for their students. Obviously, they cannot guarantee immediate employment after graduation because there are too many factors that impact successful employment upon graduation (job market, economy, etc.).
This is not to say that all private colleges and universities are bad, but “caveat emptor” applies to prospective students!
August 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
OMG, I have been working in workforce development for over ten years. And this tops anything I have ever heard! Did little miss muffet do any career research before chosing her path? There are many resources with statistical data available regarding up and coming careers. Maybe if she would have done some research she may have chosen a path in say… the medical field or perhaps green technology. Boo hoo for her, buck it up, take responsibility, stop blaming others for our decisions and move forward.
August 19th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
You folks aren’t reading each other’s comments… Rotimi, you are detailing my point… while at the same time, it’s partially the fault of alllll of those students who cannot accept responsibility for their slackness … the generation of those where EVERYONE got a trophy. It may be an interesting exercise to look at the history of how it has gotten to this point. Marketing and advertisement make those promises… Universities are doing their share by passing students or making classes so easy (again, my apologies to those universities which have refused to lower their standards. Not all of them seem to.). You are arguing over blame that cannot be placed… it’s all of our faults for accepting mediocrity for the sake of a dime, and at the same time being cowed by false promises… not thinking for ourselves anymore. It’s a draw. Nobody wins this.
August 19th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Well, these for profit schools seem like a big ripoff. Something should be done about them. Instead of the suit being to reimburse this young lady it sounds like it should have been to make the school pay off her loans. I doubt that she or her parents used money out of their pockets for this four year degree. Just for punitive reasons I would make them pay her something for her supposed stress.
August 19th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
WOW! after reading the link Jeremy offered, I would like to retract my statement and I feel stupid for jumping to conclusions. White-collar criminals are every where and why shouldn’t they be, there seems to be little if any recourse for the victims. BTW all of us pay the price for fruad.
August 19th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Who’s the plaintiff again… Miss Teen South Carolina?
August 19th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Regarding “education”. There is “education for education’s sake” which is lovely. If you can afford it. Or if that’s what you’re after. Then there’s “education which should be really called career preparation”. Which is what it seems this young woman (and a large proportion of kids who are jumping through the hoops) was after. When one goes into the second type of program, and especially if it’s advertised as having a placement program, one expects that the institution has either a placement person or department that rounds up job leads, invites employers to career fairs, and/or has internship arrangements with the industry in question. Actually, I’d expect most of that from any four-year institution, but would demand it from a training program such as the young woman completed (from what I can tell of it). People here are making fun of her use of language, her writing ability, calling her a slacker. For all any of us knew that young woman hit the books harder than anything any of us ever did, to learn what should have been career skills. Or maybe not. In any event, all of that is moot. She went to get a diploma that should have given her the appropriate skills to function and she should have been provided placement assistance if it was promised. If they told her they would be beating the bushes for her, and that was what she paid for, and if they do not do that, then they are not fulfilling their part of the contract. Period. But we don’t know what’s going on, and there certainly seems like there’s an awful lot of people looking down their noses at this young woman without having anything more than the barest outline of the situation. Do I smell elitism? Why yes, yes I do….
August 19th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
These Vocational Schools charge a lot and promise a lot. There is some merit to her lawsuit simply because she attended a vocational school. And yes, I am in higher education and have been for 18 years. Ohio no longer is giving state grants to students who attend for profit institutions and other states should follow suit.
August 19th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
And MomSays is probably the one who would sue McDonalds because their coffee was hot. Colleges offer Job Placement ASSISTANCE; this does NOT guarantee that they will get a job. Any college that would promise to “get them” a job deserves to be sued, but I don’t think our institutions of higher learning are that ignorant that they would promise to get someone a job.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Well, maybe not so amazed. This is the logical extension of “complain for grades.” The Dean for Academic Affairs at my university raised a guys grade after the student (who actually got a C in the course) failed an open book test (twice, I let him retake it), stood me up in three office appointments made after hours so as to not inconvenience him, and failed to submit the final project for the class on time. The basis for the appeal? Having a C on his transcript would make him appear to be a poor student. Oh, yeah, one more thing… the guy is a teacher. Probably a poor one, but he has been employed by a large school for three years now. When his students are unable to graduate from high school because they know nothing, I will probably be sued. At that point, as in the previous encounter, I expect the university administration on the advice of our legal team to fold like a cheap suit.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I recently applied for a specialized job at UNLV that didn’t require a degree. There were seven candidates. Of the four with 4-year degrees, two graduated from UNLV – the hiring institution (one was me). The candidate hired had no college of any kind, and the least amount of specialized experience of the seven. What that tells me is that the institution itself really doesn’t care what happens to the graduate. I hope she wins.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Dear Peanut Gallery,
It’s been quite interesting reading all of your comments [most of them anyway]. I just have a couple of things to say.
1. I had the misfortune of teaching at a diploma mill for a time. I was torn between not wanting to be part of it and not wanting to abandon the students who working so hard and had potential. Most of these schools prey on people who are working full time and attending this ‘last chance’ school in the evenings and on weekends, all while raising young families. I hope she wins.
2. Stop bashing young people. I’m proud to say that I gave my son every advantage I could. I sent him off to a university for a real degree, and made it possible for him to graduate with zero debt and a decent car. In turn he worked consistently from the time he was 17, declared a [marketable] major and began working in that field while still in school. He’s not a rare exception. Young adults today are up against a lot more than other generations, their early life experience is more complex than previous generations, and they have different values- not wrong values, different values. Stop bashing young people…can you say ageism?
August 19th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Wouldn’t it be nice if professors practiced objective open minded observation instead of jumping to conclusions without knowing all the facts?
It is obvious the author of the article, and most of you, are biased against this student. Do you remember when reporters actually researched the facts before they published articles? Do you remember when professors were open minded and objective? Things have gone downhill, and students are not the problem. It is your job to lead by example and shape their young minds.
I agree that colleges offer placement assistance. I disagree that the institution that calls itself “Monroe College” is a college. It is a vocational training facility.
August 20th, 2009 at 5:19 am
“Poor thing. I guess it would have been the school’s fault if she got a bad grade too. The younger generation is lazy.”
Good Job. That gross generalization was productive and meaningful.
“The younger generation” spends most of their day in front of a computer or with a book open, because “the younger generation” has to deal with an information flow that would turn your brain into a roast duck inside of five minutes. “The younger generation” was caffeinated from age twelve because “the younger generation” couldn’t keep up with the rest of the generation if they weren’t on drugs.
In college, my roommates were taking ADD drugs so they could handle the workloads presented to them without suffering psychotic breaks. The architecture school of WUstl lost so many students to psychological problems that they brought in a counselor to explain to their students that too many all-nighters “were bad.” The students subsequently suggested that the lectures worked because a) they were mandatory (the students had to attend, so they couldn’t be doing anything else) and b) they slept through them, increasing their hours of sleep per week.
We’re not lazy. Believe me, we’re not lazy. We just hate “the older generation” and everything you stand for, because everything you stand for is beating us into a bloody pulp.
This is not your world. The pressures kids deal with today are not the pressures of your era, and the methods of coping with those pressures are different. We spend less time out playing kick the can, and more time inside playing “write the term paper” and “find new drug combinations that temporarily increase productivity to the necessary level.” Rum and Coffee work well for that, incidentally, if carefully measured.
Technology doesn’t make things easier. Humanity learned that from the industrial revolution. It just raises the expectation of how much sh*t you should get done in an average week.
Telling us we’re “lazy” and then asking us to show you how to use the $#@* shift key so you can type your one email per week to aunt Sophia does not endear you to us.
To hell with that, and to hell with you.
… *cough* … /rant off
That said, this girl’s high or something if she thinks she’s going to get anything out of this beyond negative attention.
August 20th, 2009 at 8:56 am
This makes me mad. You can’t just expect to graduate from college and get a top paying job, sometimes you have to work your way up! I think it is ridiculous that she is suing the college. Part of growing up and becoming an adult in the real world is looking for a job. You have to be diligent, it will not always be easy, but the whole process helps give you more experience and then when you get a job, can help to make you feel thankful for what you have! As far as suing for the “stress” of the whole thing that is outrageous. The economy right now can make it harder to get a job, but there are still jobs out there! There are many families where one or both parents have lost their jobs or have not been able to find another one for months, but you don’t see them suing their employer for being laid off or their job terminated. Many are struggling but are thankful for what they DO have. They are still out there looking and doing their best to find work, not taking an easy way out by blaming somone else and suing them because things are not working out for them! Those that are struggling may be having a hard time but they understand the meaning of hard work and taking responsibility!
August 20th, 2009 at 11:06 am
It seems this young lady will always be blaming someone for what she is not doing for herself and that is most likely looking harder for a job. Maybe a little prayer would help and a more positive attitude. Maybe reading the newspaper also so she is aware there are many looking for jobs. Maby working at McDonald’s or such might make her appreciate a better but lower paying job when she does get one.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Actually, she has learned the lessons of the new reality quite well, if you ask me.
First, she has internalized the truth that, “Nothing is ever my fault – it is always someone else’s.” The second truth is , “You have a right to everything you want and there is always a lawyer handy to help you get it”. Lastly, “Truth is relative.”
The question is: just where she was exposed to these twisted ideas?
We bail out AIG, the banks, home speculators and even the car companies despite outright incompetence and greed and possibly criminal intent. And then we reward the perps. Our leaders in finance and government have the courage of mice when it comes admitting wrongdoing, (ref. the legislator from Nevada whose affair was “nothing wrong”). The “name it and claim it” evangelists abound on TV. We try to talk our way out of traffic tickets even though we know we broke the law.
Any ideas yet?
“We have met the enemy and he is us.” – Walt Kelly in the comic strip, POGO
August 20th, 2009 at 11:47 am
“The second truth is , ‘You have a right to everything you want and there is always a lawyer handy to help you get it’.”
Bob, the REAL truth is that she is representing herself in court. She doesn’t have a lawyer.
It is painfully clear you have rushed to judgment without knowing even the most basic facts of this case. I hope you are not an instructor. I would hate to think students look to you to set an example.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Jer;
You missed my point.
My post really has noting to do with the specifics of the case.
I maintain, we are individually and collectively responsible for the climate we set in our society and the messages we emphasize by our behaviors, hence the quote from POGO. (You may not be familiar with the strip as it has been out of print for decades).
In a particular way, we are all responsible for this lady’s attitude and the lawsuit.
That’s all.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Representing herself?
Well, in addition to acknowledging the timeless wisdom of Walt Kelly, we should admit the the individual who represents him or herself in court has a fool for a client.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Amazed, that’s hilarious… though true, it shouldn’t be… and who knows, maybe she’ll be good at it and land a job as a lawyer!
August 20th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Then again, maybe she’ll end up suing herself for malpractice.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Gimme gimme gimme: Call me obtuse for sticking to “just the facts ma’am”. I find speculation to be a waste of time.
I’d like to know what the college did to provide employment references to the student and more importantly, what the student did with the employment references, and finally what, if any, was decided by the would-be employers. Sadly, the employers can’t say anything except, “Yes, she interviewed for the job”.
I’d prefer to wait and see what discovery/depositions uncover…there’s a real story hiding in there somewhere.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Younger Generation – I love that you accuse me of a broad generalization and then turn around and generalize my comments. I send multiple e-mails every day. I taught myself how to use a computer. When I was in school, computer classes weren’t part of the curriculum. We took notes with actual pens and paper, not on our laptops and we attended classes where we had to listen to our Professors rather than watch a streaming video of them at our own leisure.
I think it is safe to say that just about everyone generalizes. The thing about generalizing is that you aren’t targeting one person – as I didn’t you, but you did me. I imagine that you do work hard. I imagine you wouldn’t be reading articles on the HigherEDMorning website unless you had a vested interest in your education. I imagine that your parents are proud of you, except for maybe when you use symbols for expletives and tell a person you don’t know at all “to hell with you.” and are proud of the job they have done raising you.
I imagine Ms. Thompson’s parents are proud and supportive of her as well. Ms. Thompson, however, on the surface (which is all we were provided, even after reading Jeremy’s link) does not appear to be as diligent. In my humble opinion as an administrator in high school or higher education for the past 12 years, the plaintiff is a pretty good representative of her group. She applied for and was accepted to Monroe College – for such that it is – not once, but twice. Not only does caveat emptor apply, but how about “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me?” The fact that she was taken in by the advertisements without delving into the school itself before she enrolled twice, brings to question her diligence in choosing the “college” that she thought would prepare her for employment.
Ultimately, you get what you pay for.
August 20th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Brandi: Ultimately, you get what you pay for.
If ‘pay’ equates also to the sweat equity put in, then I’m with you.
August 21st, 2009 at 12:07 am
All I have to say is that we should remember the words of Lazarus Long:
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Of course, others might think of Forrest Gump’s statement he learned from his mother:
Stupid is as stupid does.
Later.
August 21st, 2009 at 2:17 pm
There are some very intelligent people out there who struggle with spelling, some of whom, I notice, have commented here. I agree that this lawsuit is ridiculous, but I do not think a person’s total merit should be based on his/her ability to spell.
August 24th, 2009 at 10:22 am
It is a fine line where the responsibilty resides between the college and the student when it comes to finding a post graduation job. Students can not have everything just handed to them, including jobs. With that said, at Wright State University (Dayton, Ohio), the College of Engineering has a job guarantee. If the student has a 3.0 GPA at graduation and fails to find a job in 3 months (documented of course), then they can pursue a Master’s degree tuition free. This applies to any Engineering or Computer Science degree. The jobs are so plentiful in our area, that we have very few students who need to take advantage of this offer.
August 24th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
I think we all need to be open minded about this issue. I really think that a student who has the courage & knowledge to with stand the negative oppression of this world and still complete college, earning a Bachelor’s Degree should be commended.
Now I also believe that this young lady might be frustrated because she feels as though the promise made to her by this institution; which was to provide her with a certain level of support, was not fulfilled.
Is it right to sue the college? Well in many of our eyes the answer is no, but in her eyes, she feels as though we has a people have taken the promises of everyone and just accepted them and moved on with what we think life should be based on our society. But in all essence I think she has a right to say that no more will we accept false advertisement from any source of media, politician etc. just to gain our support or to gain our business. We are expected to do what we say we are going to do as a student in order to accomplish or achieve our educational goals why should we have to say that it is fine for an institution or any company of that matter, to lie about their services just to gain us as a student or our business.
This is unfair; (though I know life is unfair) this lady has taken a stand to say something that we all want to say but are too scared to say. If you as an employee, hired me to do a job based on a job description outlined, I’m sure I will get fired if I fail to complete my job or maybe even written up. So you should everyone else go by just saying and committing to things that they never complete. I’m so sorry that the college had to be the one to go through this. Though it makes no sense to you all I have to commend her for taking a stand for us all with no support. This has nothing to do with laziness because it is a lot of work to get something done especially when a great majority of the world views it as nonsense. I thank her for at least taking a stand against false advertising….if you can’t do it don’t tell me that you can because I will hold you liable for it just as though you would hold me liable if I was employed by you. I hope you all see my point on this if not take some time and think about all the institutions that promise us all things that we never received, some might say it is just advertisement I say don’t lie to me. If that doesn’t work think about how many politicians have made promises to do things and never do and we all just accept, well not anymore, for now this lady says no more. You either do what you say or don’t say it at all. Hey guuys let me know how you feel. I think this is a very interesting issue and we must think outside of the box or in other words the norm.
P.S. I hope i have my words selpt correctly..
August 24th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Interesting: I hope you all see my point on this.
No, not really.
August 25th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
I think the complaint is realistic. The cost of going to a 4 year university is ridiculous.
The probability of the case being thrown out is about 100%. The colleges and universities
do not care if you get a job. They only hope you get a job. They are teachers of books
and how to understand them to pass a test. Employers like college graduates because
it shows them you can learn a system and follow the rules. If you learn a system like computers
then chances are a computer company may hire you.
Parents should educate their high school children on the money sucking colleges that
do not care what courses you take——they only care that you pay for your 4 year stay!
August 26th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
As someone who used to work in the corporate world, I have first hand experience that it takes a lot more than a degree to get you a job – especially in this economy. I’d love to see this young lady’s cover letters, resumes, and hear about where/how she applied for jobs, did she do follow up calls or emails, etc.
Sometimes there just aren’t jobs or a person doesn’t have the right qualifications or there are only so many interviewing slots and for completely arbitrary reasons a person doesn’t get an interview. Life is funny that way.
August 26th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Justin is right.
I graduated with an MS in Geology and had over 100 rejection letters before I got my first job.
A friend’s daughter just graduated with a degree in engineering and is teaching high school.
Times are tough and you do what you need to to get through.
Tim:
Colleges are no worse than companies that use an employee until they are too well paid, (and probably over 45), and then cans them under the guies of a “layoff” for a lower paid and less experienced replacement. That even happens in Public Education! At least the college holds out some hope of employment.
August 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
When are you people going to realize Monroe College is a “college” in name only!
I keep reading about other people’s experiences with real colleges and universities as if they are relevant to this case. They aren’t. Unless you went to a vocational school, your experience doesn’t compare.
For the umpteenth time, Monroe College isn’t a real college or university. It isn’t listed on the U.S. News list of 1,400 colleges. It doesn’t require SAT scores for admission.
You would think the people who comment on articles published in a higher education publication would not speak from a position of ignorance. You would think….
August 26th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Yes, Jeremy, you would think that people would get their facts straight.
For example, the U.S. News list doesn’t include all colleges and many colleges don’t require SAT scores.
Monroe is accredited by the Middle States Commission on Colleges and Universities, having demonstrated that it meets the same standards as Columbia University and Cornell University among many others. Of course that doesn’t mean that all accredited colleges are equal, but Monroe has met the minimum standards.
And by the way, there are a lot of Columbia and Cornell graduates who can’t find jobs in this economy, so let’s not make that the standard of quality.
You would think people would get their facts straight…
August 26th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Most people here make excellent points. College or not, good student or not, this lawsuit has the potential to make some serious waves regarding precedent of a far bigger shift in the thinking of American education and accountability.
American society has adopted this position of entitlement and someone else being responsible for my failures — and this case is simply another expression of that. At the same time, however, the school or institution shouldn’t make promises that it may not keep; that’s false advertising.
Having been in the academic system for nearly 15 years now, I’ve noticed that there’s been a significant turn in the messages that we get everyday that determine and reinforce what our society accepts as normative. Consider the billboard I saw on a highway in FLorida “whocanisue.com” or something similar… Call them, tell them about your problems, and they’ll find someone from your life history who they can sue to get some cash in your wallet — and theirs of course. There is in my mind, a sadness to this. For one, I think it’s simply pathetic from all sides. Secondly capitalism has come to replace any form of social responsibilities. Even our government is being outsourced, overrun by self-serving capital interests that come with questionable accountability and oversight, and even when we KNOW they don’t keep promises and/or flat out lie, we continue to funnel money their way, using some partisan politics or legal semantics to find a reason to justify…
I think this is all part of the same problem we have everywhere right now: false advertising, rampant exploitation and empty promises juxtaposed against a pathetic attitude of entitlement, indifference or luke-warm reactions over anything that doesn’t involve our bank accounts directly (how many times have you been told that some very important political issue is “boring” by students simply because the consequences are not cut and dry, nor clearly expressed by those trying to get the spoils). This recent issue of health care reformation provides the complete example.
Our corporate attitude has been dominated by a mentality of seeking out only to make profit for those owning them, which is mandated by federal law, regardless of who or what you destroy in the process. To be educated or socially minded, that is not “socialist” but actually caring about your community and society as a whole, is no longer meaningful nor valued. We don’t reward this worldview (otherwise, the professors and NOT the “sons of capitalism” would be raking in the big bucks, no?)… Students learn that it’s not about what you do or how you think, it’s how much you make, and the flash and/or power that comes with it. I’ll never forget one of the little 15 second spots “The More You Know” they used to run between commercials and cartoons on Saturday morning. One of the “words to live by” was “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.”
As long as these are the messages constantly thrown at us in this pervasive attitude of capitalism as religion, I think things like this suit will be quite common… what else could be expected?? To indulge in details is an interesting exercise, but that doesn’t solve the problem of things to come unless we approach the issues that lie at the core, regardless of the outcome of this case. But we don’t and seemingly won’t. Why? Because we can’t “prove it” via dollars and cents? The irony kills me.
August 27th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Hmm, great idea. I should go sue my alma mater! I can’t find a job either. Imagine all the lawsuits if every unemployed college grad decided to sue their college.
September 3rd, 2009 at 4:21 pm
I can understand her anger but not her approach. I have been looking for a different job for about a year now. I have graduated from college and also have eight years working experience with a non-profit organization and I am just sick to death. I have tried networking…half the time even people close to you don’t care enough to recommend you to someone who is hiring. My self-esteem has gone down…I will see a job that I am somewhat qualified for and just will not applying because I know it will be just one more let down. I am tired of getting my hopes up.
I live in Michigan, the hardet hit state in the country. As a result I have to stay in a job where there is absoluntely not room for advancement and I have had to take a pay cut from $7.75 and hour to $7.45. I don’t mind the last part so much. Also, as I keep this job my skill set is going down, I am falling behind and unable to keep up with the competition..and at 24 years old that is very depressing!
I feel that girls pain. It is stressful knowing that there are jobs out there that you are MORE then qualified to do but being passed up just because you are not the perfect match for the job or because organizations don’t want to pay to train their employees. You want to blame someone because you have run out of ways to blame yourself.
September 3rd, 2009 at 4:40 pm
This is just a sad issue all the way around. I recently graduated and found with eight years of work experience not only that my Communications degree is worthless but also that my eight years of telephone fundraising experience is also worthless. I am stuck in a job I hate and can’t even advance in and recently my pay of $7.75 and hour was cut to $7.45 can hour (bot even worht cutting). Although I have worked hard my whole life, am a two-time All-American in Track and Field, and have work experience it is not enough. Everything has to be better! Guess what I just can’t measure up. I am sick of it! I feel this girls pain but don’t agree with her approach.
September 25th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Some of these diploma mill colleges lure young unsuspecting students in with false advertisement of 90-95 percent job placement rates upon graduation. $70,000 is alot of money to spend on a vocational school. Seems she may have been led to believe that she would be able to quickly jump right into her career with the colleges assistance. However after graduating she felt as if she was hung out to dry with a boat load of debt to boot and broken promises made by the college. She actually may have a case here. But if nothing else, this will shine a bad light on these fake “institutions” that make huge profits off of the backs of our young gullible people. Good luck to her.
September 25th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Alright I need to chime in… yeah, we’re one of those parents that allowed our child to study the field of her choice, (gasp!), and interest, art history/studio art/& a foreign language. Yes, we are, as she was, aware that her earning potential would be limited upon graduation but there are entry level positions which, as we told her, will be a stepping stone to pursue other interests. Upon completing her undergraduate she plans to take one of these entry jobs, and continue with studies. There ARE jobs… you just have to live within your means… as we have our whole lives affording us the ability to provide these studies to her as a gift. She is not shackled with debt (nor are we) which would require her to earn high income to support. She has savings which will give her a good start in pursuing her dreams. It’s sad to think that the only reason people pursue certain studies is to be able to work with minimal interest. Our current economy is sad and this downward spiral is driven by corporate greed… thank goodness my daughter doesn’t want to provide her blood, sweat & tears to these ‘Bernie Madoff’s’ of our society.
September 30th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Wow… Maybe she should also sue her parents for raising a LOOSER!!!!!!
October 20th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I am a recent graduate as well with a Master Degree in Health Sciences. I have also not been able to find a full-time job yet and it has been 5 months since graduation. I don’t blame the school though, the problem is the economy. Many people who have years of experiences and diplomas are also out of work as well. All I can do is keep searching and hope my day comes soon. She has a poor GPA and her spelling is terrible. In grad school, if you can not maintain a 3.0 GPA minimum you are out. She should have gone to her school and asked for help writing her resume, cover letters, and practicing mock interviews. What does she want…someone to hand her a job in this economy because she is like thousands of other graduating students who are in the same situation?
November 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I’m a new grad with a masters degree and can’t find work since I graduated 6 months ago. I don’t blame my college, it’s just the economy and where our country is right now. Plus, I am in a high demand area of health care, yet still no job, I have my first in person interview this week for the first one in 6 months of looking! I don’t know what I’m going to do if I don’t get it. My student loans are $400/mo and I have to start paying them in Jan. Companies simply won’t invest the time to train new grads right now, regardless of the industry. It’s a terrible time to go back to school, I’d say keep whatever job you have and be happy until our system recovers. Sad times we are in…
November 17th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Dear Erin and sfl:
I looked for my first job during a similar recession and found that most job hunters concentrate in the desirable markets! Intense competition in the major cities such as San Francisco, New York, etc. and at major firms, too.
A professor suggested I expand my search to some “less desirable” locations such as small towns, the Mid West and so on. I snagged a job pretty quickly, not a great job, but a job in my industry! Not only was it a job, but come the end of the recession, I was the one with experience. I was far more employable than my peers who had not looked far afield.
I easily made a jump to a better area at greatly improved salary.
The effect was long term as I ended up as a boss of my peers by virtue of that extra experience.
Any job is a good place to hide out, even the VA. Future employeers will acept the fact that jobs were scarse when you were looking and give you extra points for having made your own opporunities and worked rather than sitting there and wringing your hands.
Another respected place to hide is the education system. Most systems, even those cutting back, are woefully short of math/science teachers! Alternative certification is available, too. I hid out there during one recession and it did not hurt my career at all. In fact connections through teaching students got me my next job in the field.
I’m very glad that professor suggested I broaden my search. I don’t think it would have ocurred to me on my own.
Sometimes, a short term sacrifice may be necessary to garner a long term gain.
Best of luck guys!
December 13th, 2009 at 1:46 am
Dear All,
This woman did the right thing. There are too many colleges and universities in the US and way too many satellite campuses. Few of them teach anything of any real industrial value. Most try to mimmic classic education and do so just to get the cash. If stafford loans and implied government guarantees on private loans were never invented, there would not be as many colleges and other post secondary schools.
This woman is well within her right to expect the college to either get her a job or repay the loans. Otherwise, it will come out of the tax base or the economy. The purpose of education for educators is to enlighten but the purpose for students is to get a good job to pay off the debt. In fact, the debt really outweighs the benefits of being an educated person. Further, schools are so greedy, they have taken so many unqualified candidates that they have watered down the value of a degree. The most desirable students today are those who keep their mouths shut, go through the assembly line and take their degree on the other end. Why do faculty and administrators now make six digits or even $60,000 or $80,000. Why aren’t they limited to making only $30,000?
The US is facing a huge student loan crisis that could be avoided if higher education tailored to industry. While, there may be a need to offer quintessential education, it should be required to come with a warning label, as does a pack of cigarettes. If we were to hold schools accountable for guaranteeing jobs, offers of admissions would immediately drop to only those who are truly capable of academic achievement. Employers would then have to invest money in training the rest. That is how it used to be. But now, with title Iv finding, anyone can go to college. Further, scholarships are given out for everything other than merit and all kinds of uneducated people with 4 year degrees are taking jobs that they really are not qualified to have. This is especially true in the case of civil service and the field of education itself. There are dumb people in our schools, colleges and universities and many of them are called teacher, professor, administrator business manager and the like.
There needs to be accountability in higher education and it needs to fall on the shoulders of the institution, not the individual. Granted, enforcing such an accountability would reduce college admissions offers substantially over night but that is what we need. We need to rank order society based on innate intelligence and talent, not hard work alone and certainly not one’s social demeanor, family name, connections and other such characteristics. We don’t do that. Instead, we make it possible for everyone to get a piece of paper and avoid discussing the fact that many of those pieces of paper are fraudulent on the part of the colleges and universities.
The criteria for not having to refund tuition plus all additional costs of attendance should be that the education/training resulted in the graduate making more money than could have been the case without attending the college or university. This would immediately end the practice of two year schools, satellite campuses and other such institutions creating bs degrees and creating bs classes that are designed as revenue nets and are intended to serve as a means to keep tuition paying and loan borrowing individuals on campuses, despite their inability to make it past the first semester “weed out” courses.
The courts should start putting the cost of education back on universities and schools. Doing so would benefit society and remove a burdensome cost to the taxpayer.
Sincerely,
Sean M. Donahue
January 28th, 2010 at 7:22 am
You all are misinformed idiots. Wake up, the higher education system became a big business credentialing mill many years ago. There is something fundamentally flawed with the system when I spent $100,000 of hard and lost opportunity costs on my education plus 4 years of diligent studying earning a bachelor’s degree at a University, and graduating summa cum laude (top in class), and the best job I could land is earning LESS than the job I was offered ten years ago WITHOUT a college degree. To add insult to injury, my kid sister, who has a GED was offered a $30,000 year WITH benefits administrative position in the insurance industry, while I have been muddling by with a lousy “temp” job within a government agency with NO benefits, and making less than $8,000/year than the kid sister doing similar type work. We have been lied to and duped.