20 Responses to “New study: What colleges really care about”

1. Jordi Marti Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 11:29 am

   No, I think it is not accurate.
   I think the reason is that the general public is not understanding the difference between (A) focusing on making money (i.e. a Business) and (B) focusing on having the funds necessary to provide a quality education (i.e. Colleges). Perhaps a small, but important difference.

   We must realize that, whether we like it or not, providing a quality education costs money ( Quality of staff, teacher /student ratio, classroom environment, food, lodging, social activities, etc. ) . All these things come at a price ! That is a reality and parents should consider whether or not their kids are ready for college.

   A question that parents should ask is: ” Are kids mature enough to have their priorities straight. Having fun in college is is fine, but it should not be the top priority” . Many kids are just not mature enough to go to college. A year or two in the work force , before going to college, might prepare them (the students) for a better, fuller college experience.

   JM

2. Larry Abele Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

   It is difficult to assess the results of the survey since colleges and universities do a poor job of communicating costs and activities to the general public. We have to operate on many levels as a business since we have limited resources and are and should be accountable to the public for our expenditures, It is my experience that most universities care more about reputation than serving the needs of our country- and that is educating any student who is willing to work hard enough to succeed.

3. Justin Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

   I think this is quite eye opening. However the — 60% believe colleges could “take a lot more students” without sacrificing quality or increasing costs — comment is unfortunate in that is demonstrates a lack of understanding as to what kind of work goes into teaching and higher education. The comments about cost and business though seem to suggest a growing concern about the effectiveness/quality of the college experience.

4. Glen Harvey Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

   I work at a community college and I am of course concerned about the demographics of these statistics. One thousand respondents ? Tell me about them. Yes, there is waste just like anywhere. Cost rising faster than anything else ? Try healthcare !!! The question is: How many students are college material without lowering the bar ? In California, the legislature determines the funding and we are short, especially in Staff always instructors. Staff do not have the protections of staff to student ratio as instructors.

   Unfortunately, since the general public reads at a fourth grade level their insight into the educational system is certainly suspect. Just read some of the blogs on healthcare and you will exactly what I mean. So these types of stories are cute and create an emotional bit of excitement but they are certainly not scientific in nature but they sure draw attention to the under-educated masses don’t they !!!!

5. Sharon Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

   As a non-tradional student at a very traditional age university I agree with Jordi Marti’s last paragraph. I believe we should have a gap year as the UK does. Even students who are prepared and mature would benefit from getting out of their comfort zone – get a “real” job or an internship, do volunteer work, or travel to other parts of the world. Anything that would broaden the paradigm of these kids would be incredibly beneficial for them. Also, not everyone needs to go to a four-year university/college – we still need plumbers, mechanics, welders,… and community colleges are the best place for this type of training, which should include basic college level requirements in writing and mathematics. We need to quit forcing college down kids throats and making them believe there are no other options.

6. Paula Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

   Colleges spend a great deal of money and human resources on securing and maintaining accreditation for various programs in addition to their regional institutional accreditation. The booming and burgeoning accreditation business should be investigated, especially if the accreditation agencies cannot supply evidence that graduates of programs accredited by them perform significantly better than graduates of programs that are not accredited. Some external quality control is essential, but how much is too much, especially when much of it is redundant?

7. Evy Shankus Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

   As a lecturer with the University of Washington, Tacoma for the last 15 years, I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that our number one priority is the student who comes to us to learn. The unfortunate truth is that we are in an economic environment that demands that we all do more with less, which often involves teaching larger classes and taking on more leadership roles on committees, etc.

   Education at the University of Washington is not a “for profit” business. We are an institution that is provided for the people who value higher education as a means to achieve their goals, whether they be intellectual or professional, or both. It is truly unfortunate that the sample surveyed feels as they do, but please be assured that my colleagues and I are truly committed to providing our students with a great education, and not to padding our own pockets.

   Lastly, class size DOES matter.

8. Veronica Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

   You are not reporting what students and teachers really care about.

   You are only reporting what administrators and boards of directors care about. Recently they have adopted a “corporate model,” which means that they wish to copy the failed business model that has brought the U.S. to its financial knees. It’s a bad idea.

9. Hank Walker Says:
   February 24th, 2010 at 7:33 pm

   I believe that the results of the survey come from the believe that a large chunk of university budgets (paid via tuition or state funds) goes to non-teaching activities. Think about all the universities that subsidize their sports programs. On-campus housing and food, student centers, and student activities are much more luxurious today than when I was in school.

10. Janie Williams Says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Working for a public, four year state university, I have to disagree strongly with those surveyed. This institution has had millions cut from our budget, although we are required to maintain our high standards of education. We are also consumers who have to pay more for increases in utilities and materials to accomplish the primary function of the university which is to provide an excellent education to all who attend. The president of this institution has publicly stated that our educational standards will not be compromised due to budgetary issues.

    We are a state funded institution. There are many safeguards including accreditation that hold us to very specific standards. Many institutions of comparable size have four times the number of staff that our office maintains. Everyone in the university has been asked to find ways to economize. All procedures are under review to make sure that there are no areas of waste or non-essential spending.

    Unfortunately, I am afraid that some comment on topics without any personal knowledge of the workings of higher education.

11. Richard Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    In typical contemporary American media, the public is asked for their opinion on something they have limited understanding about. As one commentator pointed out, the average American has a fourth grade reading level and surely will not consume enough information to get an adequate understanding of what it costs to educate people. The result is a gossipy-type of story which ends up running down another institution (government, churches, education have all been significantly degraded over the last 30 years). It’s time to look at big corporate business to see how much it is screwing most Americans. But the public does not really seem to be interested in doing this.

    That said, I am a counselor at a public community college and I think colleges are doing the best they can to focus on students in a costly, labor intensive industry. However, one area of shamelss waste in higher ed is the proliferation of big time athletics and leisure facilities on campus. It seems that the elites and want-to-be elites too often market themselves as country club equivalents rather than as schools. This is one of the shames of HE. But, like America itself, it’s really all about building status rather than character.

12. Uncle Bob Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    State schools would have more money if an ever-growing percentage of our budgets weren’t given over to non-instructional personnel (i.e., administrators and staff). Enormous sums are consumed by the swarms of assistant-co-vice-associate-chancellor-provost-dean-director-officer-managers who infest our institutions. Always in a hurry to get to their next meeting (invariably with each other), they each need hefty salaries, secretaries, assistants, travel budgets, and nice offices.

13. Roland Garcia Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Research universities do have to pay more for the top professors in their field of study– that’s a reality, just like winning football coaches that produce self regenerating funds appear to make an outrageous salary. Unfortunately, public universities compete with private colleges that have had old money to buffer costs coming primarily from tuition revenue; while state schools have had a continuous lowering percentage of state support.

    Thus, like health insurance, until the public makes it a priority as important as, if not more so, than the highly lobbied corporate welfare and our perpetual war machine – military industrial complex, only the very rich will eventually benefit.

14. Kathleen Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Some years ago there was a change in language that was promoted as a change in paradigm. In the professions there was a move to begin to refer to people being served as “consumers.” So we got “consumers of education” rather than students. We got “consumers of health care” rather than patients. We were commercializing the relationships between professionals and those they served. Then and ever since I’ve thought this a dreadful idea. This paradigm shift has permeated the professions and has not been a good change.

    People who study many years to gain expertise in their fields are not interchangeable cogs in an economic machine. They are unique and their fields of study are unique and ever changing. Many enter academia because they love their fields and want to contribute to their fields of expertise. Many enter teaching because they love teaching in their fields of expertise. The term “student” connotes something very different than the term “consumer.” I believe that the lack of respect for teachers from grade school through college is not disconnected from the “person=consumer” paradigm that has infected our public life in nearly every aspect. As for me, I prefer to be treated as a patient by my doctor or hospital, not as a consumer. If they kill me during an operation, I cannot go elsewhere because I did not like their service. I wish my government would begin to see me as a citizen and not as a consumer. I was appalled when the president told us to go shopping after 9/11 to show our patriotism.

    I teach at a community college and am disheartened when I hear students say things like “The instructors work for me,” or “My tuition dollars pay the instructors’ salaries.” I generally point out that the instructors work mainly for the citizens of our county who pay taxes since the largest portion by far is funded by taxes. Many of the students at our college also have Pell grants, yet another tax-funded education program. I point out that the taxpayers are funding the biggest part of their education as a public good. It is up to the students to live up to the expectations of the citizens paying taxes for their educations. There is a responsibility implied beyond the sense of entitlement that a consumer paradigm connotes.

    Given the commodification of education, the results of this survey are not surprising. Student loans are the other side of the coin, again consistent with this paradigm. It follows that if students have become consumers, then the banks who give the guaranteed student loans have every right to make a profit from them. I say that it’s time to change the paradigm. We want the medical profession to treat people as patients. We want the government to regard us as citizens. We want to regard those we serve in education as students, and we want them to see themselves as students, not consumers of education. Certainly money will play a role in all these professions. The important part of all these relationships are not monetary. We need to redefine them and reject the idea that persons are consumers in all these roles.

15. michael Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    College costs more because health insurance for all the teachers and staff costs more and because the administrators need more shiny new toys.

16. Paul Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    As a business person/owner who now teaches I want to say that education is not a business and should not be run like a business, for that matter niether is government. If what you mean is that education should be run efficently then I agree. I see in large uiversities and in Community Colleges a great deal of waste and poor management so yes I do believe costs have gotten out of control. The bigger concern I have is the unwillingness to change or do something differnt among academics as a group (yes there are always exceptions). I get very tired of fellow faculity and administrators saying “Thats not in my job area or ..but if we do this that means I’ll have to do that” Many of these things lead to waste and lost financial opportunities.

    It is rare that I hear my colleagues “sure I’ll do that for the students”! instead it is “I’ll do that for the students only if you pay me.”

17. david Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I think it is fair to review our mission statements and then ask if resources are being aimed at mission statement. Take total school budgets, if you can find that number, and then make a pie chart with the portion devoted to classroom teaching inlcuded. That piece of pie will be small, and shrinking over time. Mission statements all say that piece of the pie should be the whole meal or at least the main course.

18. Glen Harvey Says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    I think the comment about sports is totally correct. Sports have become a religion across the world. Why ? Now community colleges are going to possibly be hit with removing some of these courses, as they are not a contributing factor to student success. Of course the faculty are incensed, because they have a huge stake in the Sports Complex.

    What really gets me upset is that the staff, classified staff that is, are always considered the arm pit of the educational institution. The college, at least at the community college, has a group of people who contribute greatly to the success of the college by providing skills such as lab setup to instructors that simply do not have time to the preparation and teach. They spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to motivate the unmotivated.

    The public has very opportunity to see the financial state of the institution but they do not participate. Here is a great example. Merced College has not a had a challenged board of trustees position for over ten years. So the public is either satisfied with the job they are doing or they simply sit on the sidelines and complain.

    What I think should happen is that we should be looking at sustainability of the educational institution with some data to reward colleges through money. This means that colleges that have high retention rates and students who achieve some type of goals are rewarded for their efforts. Currently census day is the most important day of the year for the community college. What happens after that doesn’t matter because payday has already been met.

    The other problem is financial aid. This has become a business for a portion of the student population just like welfare. California EDD is a total mess and really doesn’t do what would help give California it’s skilled labor force. They are trying to enforce rules that just don’t make sense. The federal government is paying large amounts of money for student financial aid with very little money being spent by the student. For me, if I have to pay something then I am more apt to take care of it. Just a funny principle my folks taught me at 12 years old.

19. Shahab Says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    I think everyone here has a point. Colleges should do a better job with the funds that they are given (as the cost of an education is starting to rival the cost of healthcare. There needs to be significant reform in the accreditation process especially when it comes to the amount of money it takes to get a univer. and a program within the univer. accredited. There are probably too many people coming to a 4yr school when they are better served by going to a 2yr vocational program (there is to much value placed on bachelors and Master’s degrees and not enough emphasis placed on people and there true needs when it comes to education). And public universities have been given to much power when it comes to deciding there own destinies. These institutions are own by the state and its people, and should be answering to their students, and the tax payers when it comes to how their money is spent or how much they should be charging for tuition.

20. jdcarmine Says:
    March 3rd, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    When students can now run up more debt than they can ever hope to repay, and certainly higher monthly student debt payments than they can ever hope to earn with an entry level job, well obviously we don’t care about our students nearly as much as we care about their tuition.

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