Facebook: Professor suspended for posts
March 2, 2010 by Geneva ReidPosted in: In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views, Tech News
She thought it was a humorous post about wanting to kill her students — but school administrators didn’t agree. See what you think. When Gloria Gadsden, a social professor at East Stroudsburg University, made the following comments on Facebook, she says she was joking:
- “Had a good day today, didn’t want to kill even one student
Now Friday was a different story …” - “Does anyone know where I can find a very discrete hitman, it’s been that kind of day.”
A student told the university’s administrators about the comments, and the school acted swiftly: Gadsden was suspended indefinitely for making threats.
Marilyn Wells, interim provost and vice president for academic affairs, gave the following statement: “Given the climate of security concerns in academia, the university has an obligation to take all threats seriously and act accordingly.”
But according to The Chronicle for Higher Education, the professor believes her complaint of racial harassment against the school last month is at least partially to blame for her current suspension.
Do you think the school took the appropriate action? Let us know in the comments section below.
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Tags: facebook, Gloria Gadsden, University of East Stroudsburg
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March 3rd, 2010 at 10:34 am
Sounds like she was venting in jest, it doesn’t sound like a serious threat to me. I think the school’s going overboard on this one. But, a warning to the rest of us…watch what you say in jest, big brother is watching…
March 3rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm
When did free speech get suspended.
In my opinion it was just a poor joke.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:12 pm
When people post on facebook, they do it with the understanding that the whole world sees what they write (if they have a public profile or a lot of facebook friends) and obviosuly she wasn’t serious, b/c that would be insanely stupid. Its no different than students saying they want to kill a professor. People say said comments all the time, and someone at the school should be responsible for separating the serious ones from the obviosuly joking ones.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Even though it was obviously supposed to be a joke – it was posted on the web for the world to see and in this day and age everybody knows everything is taken seriously. If it had been a student post, it would have been jumped on. So, she definitely should have known better – but then she doesn’t seem to know how to spell either.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Excuse me, how do you know she was “obviously joking”. Nearly all of the shooters in the last few years have given warnings in their postings, emails, blogs or discussions with friends, but have been ignored. It was only a few days ago that a professor shot and killed 3 colleagues. An indefinite suspension may be a bit harsh, but you can’t just wave it off without a thorough investigation. When Army officers and professors kill just like college students, high school students or disgruntled workers, nobody can be immediately dismissed as “obviously joking”.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Sad though it is, Bill is correct; there appears to be no clear way to distinguish who is joking. And Angela’s point that she would be insanely stupid to post such comments to the entire world is true. In fact, it is true whether the professor was joking (which I believe she was), or not! Simply put, it is stupid to joke around about hiring hit men in 2010 America.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:35 pm
b/c of the background info. I am commenting on this story based on the whole context. For her, it was a joke. For others, it may not be the case, that is why each situation should be addressed thoughtfully.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I believe it was tasteless of her to post her thoughts on FB about her students. For those of you that think she shouldn’t have been suspended, would you feel that way if it were your child sitting in her class??? I believe that the university’s actions were correct.
March 4th, 2010 at 8:53 am
One can only hope she files a large lawsuit, and wins. This is along the lines of schools strip-searching students, looking for ibuprofen. Barney Fife has taken the place of Andy Taylor, and we are the worse for it.
March 4th, 2010 at 9:52 am
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Apparently this is no longer in effect.
March 4th, 2010 at 10:53 am
I think suspension was a bit much but definitely a conversation had to happen. You can’t just post stuff like that and not expect consequences. And if she feels like killing her students, shouldn’t that be a sign for her she might not be in the right career path? But who am I to judge?
March 4th, 2010 at 11:52 am
She exercised her right to Free Speech. But, that does not free her from consequences of her words.
If I went out and publicy said ‘I want to kill that so and so’ , I can say that. But, you can be sure that my comments would be invesitgated, as any threat should be. I agree that looks like a joke posting, and is probably one of the more stupid ones I’ve seen. Very poor taste and judgement.
But, as someone said earlier, what if your child was in her class, and let’s say they had an argument with this teacher that day in class, and then saw this on FB? Would you still just laugh it off as harmless joke?
March 4th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
I am guessing that some time in the future, there will be a mass social-engineering experiment (for want of a better term) in which people will make lots of death threats in jest.
Twenty years ago, it used to be completely common, and quite meaningless to say
“Oh, if I do that, my Mom would kill me!”
and, by analogy, it was okay to say:
“Please don’t spill red kool-aid on the carpet, or I’ll kill you.”
Nowadays, there remain people that are unaware that many of us have decided that this kind of speech is meant to be taken literally and seriously. Note that she put a “smiley” in her posting, which, as I understood it, should properly be translated as “(that was sarcasm, in case you’re too much of a dullard to have noticed).”
I’m not taking sides in this, I am just introducing a new thought: can we predict a future swing of this pendulum?
March 4th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
How about a suspension for being a tenured professor and not knowing the difference between “discreet” and “discrete”?
March 5th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
I very much sympathize with this professor, because I too have been victimized by overzealous authorities for making a vaguely threatening wisecrack to somebody. People should have the right to say something a little inappropriate without being viciously punished for it. And what is this “climate” the East Stroudsburg administrator referred to? There has not been a recent spate of killings, preceded by Facebook posts, that I have heard of. It seeems more like a climate of paranoia to me, a poor job market in which people are scared of being accused of not acting on a threat. I look forward to the day when this type of abusive enforcement of anything that seems like it might be a threat comes to an end. And by the way, if she really wanted to kill somebody and tell the world about it, then suspending her, or arresting her, or hitting her with an order of protection would not prevent it from happening – only incarceration would. Should we start putting people in jail for smart remarks? I say no. Call me a supporter of free speech.
March 10th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
If a student had made this comment about hiring a hit man for faculty. No one would think “it’s obviously a joke” Each incident must be taken seriously. I support free speech but not a double standard for faculty and students. I also recognize that we live in a world where terrorists are highly educated and come from the the middle and upper class.
March 10th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
I can certainly empathize with how she felt about her students, but there is no way I would ever post anything like that on a public site. I would never post it on even a private site!
March 11th, 2010 at 9:44 am
If that’s how she’s talking about her students, maybe she needs a different line of work. If, despite all the recent experience out there about the consequences of threatening language and the lack of privacy of social networking, she thinks it’s a good idea to post those remarks, maybe her judgment is questionable. As for “free speech,” given the tragedies of recent school shootings, including one by a professor up for tenure, I find her remarks analogous to shouting “fire” in a theater. Personally, I believe she meant it as a joke, but that doesn’t matter. And, by the way, what’s a “social professor?”
March 11th, 2010 at 9:57 am
I guess my only question was why is her facebook page open to the public. Why are her students able to see what she has written on there? I think that it was tacky for her to make a remark on her facebook page, which apparently was public, and not expect any consequences of her actions.
I’m all for freedom of speech, however, when you don’t seperate your professional from your personal life, you get what you ask for.
Moral of the story: Remember to make your webpages private so only a set of preapproved people have access to it.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Extremely poor judgement on her part – equivalent to joking about bombs in an airport. The institution cannot afford to ignore such public statements. Strong sanctions are appropriate.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Is everyone that are posting living under a rock? If the school did not take action and something really did happen. Can you imagine. Parents would be outraged…”you saw this post and thought it was a joke and did nothing about it?” I would say she should be repremanted and told to never do this again and have others know that is unacceptable
March 11th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
It was the smiley face that did her in, she whould have known better than to use an emoticon for any reason, she got off easy.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
The school was correct with discipline due to the climate we live in now. If a student had posted a similar comment, they, too would have received some sort of punishment.
Consider this: The school takes no action against her. She is stressed out and actually does harm a student. How do you explain that to the parents when the headline reads “University Knew Professor was a Threat”.
If she feels this is actually retaliation, I ask if there have been other instances of professors posting similar things publicly with no repercussions?
The cynical side of me wonders if she designed the post in order to prompt a disciplinary action so she could make a retaliation claim.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
What we write on the web becomes part of our online self-portrait. ‘Suspended indefinitely,’ to me, means ‘suspended until which time it is determined beyond doubt that the statements were made in jest.’ From the information provided, this seems to be an appropriate step on the part of the university.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
FYI, this rule isn’t imposed by Congress.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
In this day and age, because of 911, if you go into an airport and joke about or even mention a bomb, knife, gun, or anything close to that you know that it is not considered funny and you will be removed to a private room and minimally searched and probably allot more — all the way up to being arrested.
In this day and age, because of terrible unforseen “killing spree” tragedies, if a student, teacher, co-worker or anyone makes a threat it is also not considered funny and that person will be investigated or worse.
This is not a matter of free-speach, they didn’t say the person could not say what they wanted, they said that if what you say is a possible threat to others then we all have an obligation to follow-up and make sure it is not real. When it comes to possible safety of others, then schools, employers etc. have no choice but to follow-up.
Retaliation or not, if she was joking “and she probably was” she made a huge error in judgement and it is costing her.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
I think she should have been indefinitely suspended for misspelling the word “discreet.”
March 11th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
The assassination of George Bush has been advocated for years with little or no exposition from the press or condemnation from the same or anywhere else (http://www.ubersite.com/m/83750). Why do we feign such as this?
The school may begin an investigation, but is totally out of line to take action.
March 11th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Insane. I teach both high school and universify classes. Helicopter parents are making our future weak and whiny. Must’ve been a disgruntled underachiever.
March 11th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Absolutely the right decision….should be held to teh same standard that students are, if not higher standards as role models and educators
March 11th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
In this context, students are the equivalent of co-workers, those with whom we are obliged to work on a daily basis and who occasionally prove to be frustrating. No one who has ever had a job has not joked about the desire to harm coworkers in reaction to the frustration they cause.
The first line posted here (“didn’t want to kill even one student”) shows that the whole piece was sarcastic and not to be taken seriously. Anyone who cannot see that should take remedial English classes.
Nonetheless, to post such comments in a public forum represents an absence of concern for how one’s joke would be taken by others. And for a professor to mistake “discrete” for “discreet” is at least as unforgiveable as that lack of concern.
Was it stupid? Yes. Was it a “hangin’ offense?” No.
Insist that this professor make a public apology, explaining how the lines were written in a facetious manner to express the frustration that all teachers experience on occasion. Then put her back in the classroom and let’s all start acting like adults.
March 11th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
CollegeStaff- the first amendment says, as you reported that the “government” shall make no laws restricting speech. There was no government law involved here. People are always invoking the first amendment when they are talking about organizations firing people or taking actions- that’s not the same as making a law saying what people can and cannot post on Facebook, and that they will be jailed for doing so.
Having said that, I think the school has clearly overreacted. Most of us have made some comment like this- but we usually have the sense to make it to family or friends we can trust. The fact that her remarks were tasteless as one person said is not reason enough to suspend her from work. If we suspended everyone who said, or did, or wore something tasteless, there wouldn’t be much work force left!
March 11th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Maybe she could help me kill some of mine.
March 11th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
I feel sorry for her but frankly she went asking for trouble. Making a stupid joke once may be innocuous but she made it twice. If her thoughts of dealing with job frustrations keep coming back to killing her students it sends a clue she may be off the wall a bit.Just think: if something were to happen everyone would say there were warning signs but the school did not take action. If the decision were up to me I’d make the same call. Anyhow this is insppropriate behavior for an educator.
March 11th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
Next time I say I am so hungry I could eat a horse, I had better watch out
March 12th, 2010 at 1:04 am
These kinds of statements should be reserved for unwinding with your best friends. They should never be posted publicly.
Free speech can be too costly. It’s almost as bad as jokingly saying that you have a bomb at an airport. Her judgment is questionable.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:13 am
No, completely inappropriate. 100% inappropriate. I can’t imagine writing such angry statements and calling it “humor.” I hope this professor gets some help in managing her anger–writing you want to “kill someone” is a major issue and ought be treated as such.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:28 am
Have we lost the ability to spot a joke? This isn’t any different than what teachers have jokingly said for decades. It may have been indiscreet, but it is certainly not a valid cause for suspension. Besides, I heard this rumour somewhere about an obscure legal concept known as “freedom of speech.”
March 12th, 2010 at 7:58 am
To whom did she make a threat? This is so obviously not serious. If she named a student, or even a particular class, one might have reason to fear. She simply vented. We can debate if it was proper or wise, or even a good joke or in one in bad taste, but it was not a threat. A
March 12th, 2010 at 8:40 am
Is anyone bothered by her misuse of the word discrete?
Or perhaps she meant continuous hitmen need not apply.
One such comment is a slip of the tongue (pen), two is a trend. If I was complaining on facebook about the students I assist in my daily work (I’m a librarian), knowing that students, co-workers, or my boss might see it, I would expect some kind of come-uppance.
March 12th, 2010 at 8:49 am
Unfortunately we need to be careful of the words we choose and the forum we use. We cannot be complacent about things said like this. Things like this get posted, everyone thinks it is a joke then when it is carried out later everyone looks back and says , Why didn’t we see this coming? That is how I lost my son. Police didn’t act because it was thought to idle chatter. This woman is a role model and should be setting an example to set the bar higher, not trying to be one of the kids. I applaud the action. If a lesson learned saves a life then so be it. If people had paid attention when my sons friend posted his threat my sons life and the life of the young man on death row could have been saved.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:04 am
I think the school over reacted. It’s utterly ridiculous that she has been suspended.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:10 am
To P. Wyatt: If the student made the comment the same way this professor did with obvious sarcasm, then I would have thought it was said in jest also. I don’t know how many times especially growing up I’ve said things in the same text as what MarkG is saying. When everyone looks back after a school or workplace shooting, they all say the signs were there and it wasn’t just writing something on FB. If the administrators investigated and found the signs then it’s correct that she is suspended, otherwise it’s just administrators covering for themselves. Next step will be a lawsuit brought from the parents/students against the professor and school. Sad sad society we have turned into.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Bill Says:
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Excuse me, how do you know she was “obviously joking”.
Maybe the smiley face was a giveaway.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:14 am
College faculty should know that administrators (who should be the real target of Ms Gadsden’s anger and frustration) have no sense of humor, nor do they have any tolerance or respect for the rights of “their” faculty.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:21 am
What’s a “social” professor?
March 12th, 2010 at 9:33 am
I would like to comment but I am now afraid to make any comments in that my comments may be taken out of context and used against me. I think we are all kind of insane now, and while I think it was realy dumb for her to make these comments, come on! Soon we will lose all fredom of speech and expression. The web puts all of our coments in a public forum where everthing we say can be found a scrutinized. Hopefully with therapy and the right medications we can reach a point were we have freedon to express ourselves again before many more are fired.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:37 am
The school was absolutely appropriate. We as teachers tell students all the time to be careful what the put on facebook. The shameful thing is that this is being spun into harrassment.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:45 am
The 1st Amendment prohibits CONGRESS from inhibiting free speech. The 14th Amendment extends that prohibition to the STATES. Nothing prohibits EMPLOYERS from imposing limitations on speech. As well, it is recognized that there is no right to cry “Fire” in a crowded movie theater. I don’t have a right to claim I have a bomb on an airplane.
This woman is being punished for, if nothing else, displaying incredibly poor judgment. Given that her job requires the exercise of judgment (otherwise known as grading) every day of the week, it seems appropriate.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:51 am
HOLY COW, people…get a grip!
Suspension? Really? What are we teaching people today?
Growing up, we knew the difference between sarcasm/humor and a real threat. Zero tolerance my Aunt Edna’s backside…this political correctness/zero tolerance garbage is going too far.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the ‘discreet hitman’ comment was very smart but certainly the rest of it was a way of venting their frustration.
Each incident needs to be taken in it’s entirety and judged individually. Was there a history of violence from this instructor? Is there other corroborating evidence that this instructor was looking to hire a hitman (such as strange receipts, cloak and dagger people in the classroom, the butler doing it in the dining room with a candlestick) (THAT WAS HUMOR, FOLKS!)
March 12th, 2010 at 9:52 am
I’m not really sure what a social professor is but anyone in an educational seat should have enough sense to know what is an appropriate joke and what isn’t. I do see her as joking but think she should have been suspended for poor judgment and not being in touch with her environment.
March 12th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Look up the case of a nursing student at the University of Louisville who was expelled for expressing herself on her blog. It is a First Amendment issue and a Federal lawsuit.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:00 am
Someone posted the 1st Amendment earlier, and there are posts about free speech. Those issues involve Congress and what is lawful. Those issues aren’t the same as an organizations internal policies. Also, some threats aren’t lawful. Free speech doesn’t cover all speech. It just isn’t that simple.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Sounds like we know which student she wants to kill. The little whiny stool pigeon. Don’t blame her.
But I agree that she should have been suspended for not knowing the difference between “discrete” and “discreet.”
March 12th, 2010 at 10:19 am
Security officials, administrators, those in responsible positions need to take their jobs seriously because they are responsible for other people’s lives.
There are professors, students, American citizens who take other people’s lives.
Unfortunately, it’s not a joke. Not when a Harvard-trained professor opens fire on her fellow colleagues. Not when students go to school to shoot other students and teachers.
Finally, to make one more comment:
THERE IS LESS PROFESSIONALISM IN THIS WORLD. This is another example of that.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Please back away from the details of these individual comments and examine the “writing on the wall” of all these “social networks”.
It is time for our institutions of education to offer mandatory courses in terminal stupidity. The idiot that says something stupid on an airplane and paralyzes an entire airport for a few hours, the graduate student who is applying for a job and has a MySpace page littered with half naked drunken party photos of her and her friends, the…………….…list goes on and on.
We SCREAM first amendment rights, yet I offer that in today’s l litigiousness, paranoid, politically correct society we need to take a “time out” before we open our mouths or take to pen.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am
I agree it is unfortunate that comments, perhaps made in jest, need to be taken seriously.
Put yourself in the place of a parent on hearing comments such as these..
I agree that yes, there is ‘free speech’ and Professors have significant support in this area with respect to not limiting thier teaching. However, when it comes to ‘joking’ about harming students in a public manner as this, it is serious whether meant to be a ‘joke’ or not.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:37 am
It was a foolish post if other members and students of the University are linked to her page, but the reaction of the University is overboard. A reprimand would be sufficeint for a lack of good judgement. I too beleive in free speech and although at times it may be difficult to discern between threats and dark humor, we do still hold the rights to that freedom.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:40 am
I think they did the right thing. It’s unfortunate for the Prof., but in this day and age and especially working in higher ed she should have known better. I agree with Bill’s post. Most of the shooters gave detail accounts of what they were going to do on-line. We, as individuals, do not know this person and know of her humor so the University acted correctly in my opinion. I also work at a University and they would not take this lightly.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:51 am
The world has changed dramatically since 2001. Given the ease of availability of firearms in the USA, combined the level of frustration experience by many individuals from all walks of life, the Columbine High School and Virginia Tech shootings, the administration has the right to protect students, faculty and staff from potential violence that Professor Gloria Gadsden has made. It may have been considered humorous to her, but she should have known better since it has been documented in the media that law enforcement and security personnel at all levels take these types of threats seriously.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:09 am
She was very obviously joking! She also has the freedom to say what she pleases as long as it isn’t a serious threat. I have a college age daughter and if this had been her professor I wouldn’t have taken exception to it because it is obviously said in jest. I fully understand the fear of violence that college and other school administrators feel these days but a joke is a joke and this was a joke.
If people don’t lighten up I don’t know what’s going to happen to our freedoms in general!
March 12th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Are you kidding me? Geez, society is so over the top hyper sensitive these days. That is what is goign to make this generation of young folks and their children so dysfunctional. If you are over 40 years old, think back to your youth – my God, all the things we did and said and yet I believe we are okay – well perhaps not those parents who are raising little over protected children. Give me a break – no better yet, give the professor a break – come one, get real folks, what is next, taping our conversations in our homes? I’m glad I grew up when I did.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Not black, not white. Administrators have to use their judgment when something falls in the gray zone. These administrators went way too far. Some have said it wasn’t obvious that she was joking. C’mon. How obvious does it have to be to be obvious. At my college a professor outright lied about certain details in a grant proposal, and was funded. When brought to light, did the administration suspend the perpetrator? Return the funds? Nope. Just a harsh word, don’t do it again. The message was getting a grant is more important than integrity. I believe the Facebooking prof, Professor Gadsden, had made enemies in her administration and they were punishing her for this incident because they wanted to punish her. Academia is an odd business.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Rather than being summarily suspended (indefinitely!), the school should just be sure to conduct a thorough investigation to ascertain whether the joke was merely in poor taste or if it was rooted in something deeper. Does she have a history of making comments like these? Do her colleagues, students, friends, family notice any other strange behaviors from her? How does she respond when interviewed about it – is she hostile or strident? Does she fabricate excuses?
If the answer to all of these questions is “no,” if she owns up to the boneheadedness, she should be given a strong warning and allowed to continue with her job.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Let’s look at it from another aspect: would you want to send your child to a college where a professor is making such comments about the students, even in jest? It was inappropriate.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:48 am
Okay, so it was a joke. So she didn’t REALLY mean kill the students(we hope).
People have to realize that posting this kind of garbage on the internet is like standing on a rooftop with a bullhorn and shouting threats to the world. Sure she has the right to free speech, but her rights end where the next person’s rights begin. The students also have a right to not feel threatened in their environment. If a student in her class made the same posting on a Facebook page, she would want that student removed from her classroom, and rightfully so. Why should the students not expect the same?
She should be disciplined if for no other reason than being stupid in public. If you need to vent, do it privately.
March 12th, 2010 at 11:59 am
One of the reasons I do not friend students on my facebook. nor do I wish to be friended on theirs. And if you just have to do so set up a work related FB and and a personal FB and friend accordingly. Why set yourself up for this type of thing?
March 12th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Angie,
According to the story, it was a student who saw the post. The administration didn’t know about it prior to the complaint; so there was no Big Brother.
I think the action was appropriate. An open facebook page is not a private conversation. If you want a private joke among friends, make the page private.
And, we need to treat this in the same manner as we treat racial harrassment. Even if it is done in jest, someone may think you are serious. And even if they think there is a 99% chance that you are jesting, there is that 1% that nags at the back of your mind and may keep you up at night.
Now, I expect the investigation into racial harrassment to continue. Given this history, it may be that the school can no longer investigate itself. The investigation may need to go to a higher court.
College staff: There has long been restrictions on speech. “You can’t yell ‘Fire’ in a crowded theater” is the primary example. Nor can you jestfully denegrate anothers race or gender. Actually, we have many restrictions when it harms another. In addition, the school board did not have a law, it had a policy. If a business has a policy of firing anyone who leaks trademark secrets and lets everyone know of the policy ahead of time, that is fine.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
As my mother (pre-Facebook) used to say: “Fools’ names and fools’ faces always appear in public places.”
March 12th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Surprise, surprise, the administrators could be as stupid as the instructors.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Live and learn. I can almost assure you this won’t happen with her again.
Of course I’m assuming that her career path means she’s not a complete idiot.
So I guess, I should say , hopefully this won’t happen to her again.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Denise said: Consider this: The school takes no action against her. She is stressed out and actually does harm a student. How do you explain that to the parents when the headline reads “University Knew Professor was a Threat.”
Denise is right. Not taking action on something like this can mean a quick trip to a lawsuit plus all the misery and second-guessing that would go on. I can hear it now — “If only we’d acted when we had a chance . . .”
All of you who are talking joking and political correcness gone haywire — I bet you don’t joke in an airport security line. Those administrators are in the same awkward position as airport security guards. I believe they acted properly.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
I was thinking of applying for a teaching job at East Stroudsburg, if one were to come up in my field. Now I might scratch them off my list.
In particular response to those who are worried about hurting the students’ feelings: students are made of tougher stuff than that. It’s disrespectful toward them to believe that they would take it as anything more than what it was–industry-standard, good-humored workplace griping. Shame on East Stroudsburg U.
March 12th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
I agree that the suspension was overboard. I always believed in the freedom of speech; however, I was called in for a post I put on facebook recently after a student complained (not sure how she saw my post in the first place though). My comment was about a student who gets on my nerves–nothing threatening, no names mentioned. I agree that people today do not understand the difference between sarcasm/humor and a true threat. If a student made a similar comment about an instructor at our school, a note gets put in their student file and that’s it (unless they make multiple comments).
March 12th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
I find it hard to believe that a professor would find this to be an appropriate thing to say… very unprofessional, even if it were a joke.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
If a “reasonable” person saw the post, I think that they would recognize that actual murder what NOT what the person was going for. Dumb? Sure. But talk about overreaction from the school?! What about questioning her, reviewing her past work, maybe even a “discrete” criminal background check? But immediate suspension is ridiculous…the message in that seems to be, “Students (and others at ESU) must watch what they say/write/post at all times. Errors and poor judgement will be immediately and severely punished without an investigation into the facts. Consider yourselves warned!”
March 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
It appears that either the school overreacted or took advantage of the situation to get rid of her. There were probably other motives. The most sensible course of action should have been to interview the professor and try to ascertain whether she was joking or not. They could have also spoken to her colleagues. I do not know if they did these things. If they did not, then whoever made the decision is the one who should be fired.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Given the current economic climate, Prof. Gadsden should be commended for offering to gainfully employ a life-termination professional.
I am now officially eligible for suspension; thanks: I could use the rest.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Did the school take appropriate action? Not enough information to be sure. Were statements issued previously to this teacher or the school teachers at large?
As an educator, although I do believe in and staunchly support free speech, I also realize practical limits of speech within contexts like education and work places. As such, I consider my educator role before posting statements on line. That’s not to say I don’t post “questionable” content, but I am willing to defend my actions if called to question, including intent of the message and potential impact on my students.
The statements from this teacher do create a potential barrier between teacher and students. Also, even if stated in jest, these are the type of statements for which the school would be chastised if this teacher would in fact harm any of her students. This is more than just simple commentary (i.e. “my students drive me crazy”); these statements [probably in jest] include active language of harmful potential actions towards students.
I’m not certain, given the lack of context, if the school was “right” to suspend the teacher. However, I do think the school is being responsible to take some sort of action and, hopefully, set clear expectations with teachers regarding appropriate public messages. As I say this, please note that “appropriate” and “legal” are not synonymous. For example, I have a “legal” right to wear any clothes I want, but my employer also has a legal right to dictate a uniform that is “appropriate” for my work environment. Similarly, my employer can rate me lower in certain performance areas in an evaluation for not fully meeting expectations, but that does not necessarily require suspending or firing me.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Very similar to making a comment about having a bomb or some such brain dead comment before getting on an airplane – freedom of speech also includes an accountability clause – you canmake all the stressed out , stupid comments you want – just keep them to your self
March 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
What a confusing time we live in. I can somewhat agree with every comment, however, what happened to common sense? Given the current state of campus shootings, terrorist threats, and job insecurity during such difficult economic times, why would anyone post something of this nature? A professor should know better. Racial slurs, sexual comments, and threats of any sort (regardless of the nature) should not be tolerated (yes I know we should be able to say whatever we want to….but political correctness has taken over). Want to joke about stuff like this….then joke in private – not for the world to see. Sounds like she was just joking around, but the University should have reacted in this fashion. They can’t afford to NOT react. No one should expect the University to read minds. Does the professor have a right to be upset about the suspension? Probably. But the students and parents and University have a right to be upset. What she meant is one thing – what she wrote is another. Very poor example for her students.
March 12th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Off-color jokes can be funny too, but only an idiot what post it and think nothing bad would happen. duh….
March 12th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
George Orwell must be laughing his head off. The prof even included a smiley face to indicate humor. Go ahead, give up your liberty for a false sense of security. The administration should have been suspended for wasting resources.
March 12th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
The administration had NO choice. Although this was perceived as a joke, any threat has to be taken seriously. When many of us were growing up, it was somewhat common to hear this kind of joke from teachers, students, and parents and we all knew it was a joke because no one really committed the crime. Now people really do commit the crimes they threaten and every precaution must be taken to provide a safe learning environment for employees and students. Do I think she was joking? YES Do I think she meant no harm? YES Do I think she has to be immediately suspended until a thorough investigation can be conducted and documented for the protection of the university? YES
This is the world we live in, like it or not!
March 12th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
I am not a big fan of facebook but if you DO use facebook, you must realize that everything and anything you post is in the public domain. There is always someone out there who will have a different sense of humor or take on your posts. As such you will suffer the consequences. It is no different from using an institutional email system. So the bottom line is “If you don’t want it on the first page of the NY Times, don’t say it!” Better still, pick up the telephone!
March 12th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
TO Admin: You perceived it as a “joke”! Then you redefined it to be a “threat”! Make up your mind. You say “any threat has to be taken seriously.” Originally you agree it was not a threat but a joke. Either you have got to be joking in your comment, or you’re a “threat” to clear thinking. Orwell was right; that is, take a word or situation and redefine it to take away our liberty.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Stupid thing to do. Even it is perceived by all as a joke and not a threat, it still reflects very poorly on the institution. The institution was right to take action. It would happen in any other company.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
It does not sound like a real threat to me, yet, I believe the administration did the right thing. After all, as a educator she should have realized what consequences this could bring or how her comments were perceived.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Freedom of speech, I understand. I have no qualm saying, every now and then, “I feel like executing almost all the politicians in DC nowadays!” But it would be poor judgment to say that in DC these days.
As a teacher, it might be unprofessional for me to say that in a classroom, even. My sympathy to the professor and the administrator. Actually, my sympathy to all of us, especially to our young students, in this current climate of distrust, paranoia and fear.
What kind of persons would they be like seeing our generation this way?
March 12th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
As an administrator, it is our job to take all threats seriously eventhough I agree with some of the comments that suggests she was probably joking. If a student had posted the same thing about his/her instructors, I’m sure it would have been investigated. It is sad how much our society has changed over 20 years.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Thank god people were not as literal when I was growing up. Seriously, think about what kind of person reports stuff like that because they feel threatened. Is this our future? Really? Really?!
March 12th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
English, as we speak it here in the US of A, is a wonderfully nuanced language. We can “make Up” new word on the fly and based on the context, the people we are talking to instantly recognize what is being said and why. Humor (if there still is such a thing any more) is rooted in the play on words of saying one thing and meaning something entirely different.
This was Humor… Pure and Simple Humor! There was No threat intended nor implied!
March 13th, 2010 at 3:20 am
If she had named a student, or referred to a specific class that she taught, I could see how someone would feel threatened. She did not. Furthermore, the two statements were separated by weeks. And she claims it was a private site and not public.
See here for more on the story.
http://www.mcall.com/topic/wnep-mon-facebook-comment-esu-professor-suspended,0,256904.story
I just don’t see this as anything serious. And for the record, I wouldn’t feel threatened by a student saying the same thing.
March 13th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Why is a student able to see her Facebook posts in the first place? I’m extremely judicious about who I “friend” on Facebook and have all the privacy settings set as strictly as possible. I often get requests from students to be Facebook “friends” but would never consider doing such a thing. I don’t even “friend” former students. My personal life is personal and students are part of my professional life.
March 13th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
According to other stories I’ve read, this professor thought that her posts were private and that only her invited family and friends could read them. Apparently, Facebook made changes in its privacy settings policy that this professor, along with other Facebook users, didn’t understand. She didn’t mean for these comments to be public. It was simply an unfortunate mistake.
I’m a teacher/professor, too, and believe me, I “get” the jokes this professor made. They sound pretty tame to me. Some disgruntled students(s) saw an opportunity to strike out against this professor, and the university had to cover itself by suspending her. I only hope that they will allow the professor to return to her post. I’m sure she’s not a killer, and I’m sure she’ll be more careful about what she posts in Facebook.
And by the way, so what if she misspelled “discreet”? “Discrete” is also a word. Even the brightest people occasionally misspell or mistype words. Good grief, people. Give the woman a break.
March 13th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
You’ve got to be kidding.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:07 am
It’s one thing to joke about killing yourself, but you can’t joke about killing others or hiring hitmen. That is not funny in any way, shape, or form. It is a threat. What if this woman is a potential ticking timebomb? Do you really want to hear about mass shootings at yet another University? I know I don’t. I’m glad the school took action.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:51 am
To Angie – The Big Brother you mention is the world!
To Angela – You said “someone at the school should be responsible for separating the serious ones from the obviously joking ones”. This is exactly what a manager did. What criteria did you use to determine that the statement was obviously a joke? Who would lose a job (not suspension) if the prof acted in a threatening way toward even one student?
March 15th, 2010 at 11:24 am
The University’s action was unnecessarily harsh, unless there were prior incidents that had been warned against. If not, the instructor should have received a reprimand.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Wish I could conduct an experiment and ask all the posters their age. I would bet that almost all of those who are outraged over the professors comments and believe she should have been suspended, are under 40 and those who say “gimme a break–lighten up” are over 40.
As a previous poster pointed out, some of us are old enough to have grown up using the phrase “kill her/him” as a common idom. “I am going to kill you…” we said laughlingly as we chased someone who snatched our mittons. Our friend scratches her parents’ car and she says, “My dad is going to kill me.” When Jane committed a minor offense against us we said, “Just wait, I’m going to kill her.” All of it was said jestingly–even when a little mad. It never even crossed our minds that anyone would take us seriously.
Those of us of a certain age read the professor’s comments and can’t help but recognize the humor, even though we realize what she wrote was totally unwise. Unfortunately, those under a certain age grew up in a different environment and see no humor at all. What a sad world this has become.
March 16th, 2010 at 10:57 am
Pam, I’m over 40, and I think the school was right. I also agree that the world has become much more threatening and this makes me sad too.
The world changes; what is acceptable changes. You need to grow & adapt. There are lots of things that could be said or done when I was a child that are not found to be offensive & wrong. Sorry, but in today’s world it is no longer acceptable to make threatening comments. Adults, especially parents & teachers, should know what is/isn’t acceptable and they need to be good role models.
There really is no such thing as an “idle threat”. Look at it this way… victims of suicide make repeated comments about killing themselves before they actually make an attempt. This woman made repeated comments about killing her students. Logic indicates that its only a matter of time before she makes an attempt. It’s been proven more than once with mass shootings at educational institutions across the USA.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Pam, I’m over 40 and in the “gimme a break” category.
Ann, “Logic indicates…” gimme a break! Talk about assuming the consequent, good grief. What color are your shackles?
March 16th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Pam,
I am also over 40 and think the school is right. Ditto on most everything Ann says. (There, I used a term from the 70s and it wasn’t in the least bit threatening.) I do not consider the first comment, taken alone, to be a threat.
Wait, there’s more! (To use a phrase from the zeros.) Even though we may have joked about “Dad will kill me,” Dad never mentioned hiring a hitman. If I were one of the school administrators and the teacher had only used the first post, I would have had a short investigation, sent the teacher to sensitivity training, put her on probabation for a while and may or may not have had a press release. With that second post, matters may be more serious and a serious investigation is needed.
March 16th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Pam, I tend to agree on your thought about the age related point of view. Like Ann, I also believe that the school has done what could be the prudent approach considering how the world is now.
I do hope that further investigations will set the whole thing straight and the most appropriate action taken with reason and decency prevailing. Was there any indication that it was a pattern with her, making threats?
Ann, I agree that change is constant and that we must adapt. But I’m not sure that in the sad and and paranoid road that our culture seems to be heading, adaptation is something I can live with. We cannot teach, nor administer, nor govern in fear. And there are values that we should endeavor to pass on to the next generation, not distrust and suspicion certainly.
But courage in the face of all that we are seeing nowadays is hard. Just look at our leaders in the government. I would not want to be the one judging the administrators either.
March 16th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
There are some facts that people who are so quick to to tromp on open expression should understand.
First, the world is not getting more threatening, but the opposite. American violent crime rates are at their lowest levels in over 40 years and have been dropping for almost two decades. Rates of violence in *schools* have been cut roughly in half since the early 1990s.
Second, a great many people make perfunctory “threats” to others. Almost no one carries them out. While a few (highly publicized) people who have carried out violent actions first wrote about them, that does not mean that a person who makes such a “threat” is more of a threat than anyone else.
What *has* happened is that people have become ever more fearful (in terms of school administrations, this primarily means to be fearful of lawsuits should a coincidental expression of violence ever occur), and less tolerant of open expression. Instead of calling the prof in and saying “You can’t post stuff like that, so cut it out! If you don’t like our students, get a different job!” they go straight to what is essentially the academic death penalty. Such an institution won’t stop until it gets hit with a large settlement and a court order to reinstate the poor sap.
March 16th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Right on the money, Doug, exactly the point. Unfortunately, paranoia and fear have nothing to do with statistics and reality. Quite the contrary.
Imagine what the administrators might have considered vis a vis -
Should we dismiss the comment – What’s the chance of being sued by students or parents group or some children safety advocacy group?
Should we suspend – What’s the chance of teachers’ unions and/or civil liberty groups suing us for large sum of money, something that either or many schools nowadays cannot afford?
And so, what happens to learning, and who are the biggest losers?
March 16th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
It seems that many respondents believe that the university failed to see the humor in the Facebook professor’s posting. Others stressed the generation issue by referring to being over or under the age of 40.
To these individuals, I would like to suggest that they visit the links below and read the news articles published by a respected newspaper: The New York Daily News. These people made threats either humorously or seriously. The bottom line: these people carried out their threats and changed the lives of many individuals forever.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/12/2010-02-12_shooting_at_university_of_alabamas_huntsville_campus_leaves_3_dead_1_injured_wom.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/26/2010-02-26_elementary_school_teacher_jennifer_paulson_shot_and_killed_by_alleged_stalker.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/23/2010-02-23_two_teens_shot_at_denver_middle_school_just_three_miles_from_columbine_high_scho.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/09/29/2009-09-29_high_school_on_lockdown_after_student_.html
These articles clearly demonstrate that the university did the right thing to protect students, faculty and staff from potential life-changing injuries and maybe death also.
March 16th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
As an educator and as a businessman, I have seen the deterioration of writing skills accelerate as the ease of written communication has increased. More frequently than ever, I see people writing like they are talking and thus failing to realize that the written word does not convey the very essential nuances that voice does. Yes, the emoticon does provide a vital clue as to intent, but the words are assimilated before the emoticon is, and the offense can form before reason takes over. Too bad the professor did not realize the differences between writing and oral communication. Suspension during an investigation is appropriate, I feel, pending verification of intent and subsequent corrective action, if deemed necessary. Perhaps a remedial writing course!
March 16th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
I am proud to be in my twenties and not as paranoid as those who thought the administration was justified in firing the professor who expressed herself on her facebook page in a non-threatening manner. Where does everyone else work that they never have one of those days? I have seen much worse on facebook and I am thankful that my college does not fire faculty and staff for making jokes on their personal pages that reference no one in particular. They read into these things individually and can easily detect a prof having a bad day and a prof that needs to be disciplined.
March 16th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Doug,
To me, the statistics say that PC and the threat of lawsuits support the decision to review what that teacher has done and not to treat it lightly.
Why? Let me compare it to something else. Deaths to drunk driving have also decreased. There are stiff penalties, so we now have stiff penalties. And, the whole drunken college student (or drunk blue collar worker or drunk opera attendee) cruising main street now has a negative image.
I’m no sociology teacher, but it seems to me as if our society decides certain behaviours are unacceptable and enforces that decision through laws and through social norms.
I hope that now and in the future, we can still express aggrevation about students. But, we need to watch how we express that aggrevation. This instructor used hyperbole (if she was indeed joking) that is no longer acceptable in lawsuits. But those lawsuits are decided by jurors which, hopefully, reflect our current social norm.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
But what is a “social professor”. That is the most baffling part of the story.
As for the hit list, we all should remember Columbine before we defend “free speech”. The University administration should be praised for its courage in acting appropriately even in the face of a standing racial discrimination suite.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Pam,
The age-related attitude differential may be true for the kinds of people who post comments on a site like this, but I completely disagree that it is simply a generational phenomenon–in fact, I’d argue that the casual/figurative language of the average American under 40 is much more violent than previous generations’. An hour or two surfing basic cable should convince anyone that we live in strange days, when the damaged and the different are routinely ridiculed on “reality” shows, torture-porn disguises itself as pranks, and the idioms of the criminal culture have become an everyday catch-phrase shorthand.
Let’s face it, gang: We have built a post-moral civilization, and such alarums and excursions over a supposed “role model”‘s eminently typical comments seem a bit late in the day. The woods are burning, boys, and we’re filling eyedroppers.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:47 am
By the way, latest “Higher Ed Morning” story: frat boys brand a student’s buttocks with a hot wire coat hanger. And the role models just keep on comin’.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Larry, PNCer
I apologize for the poor writing skill I showed. I rushed out a post before class.
When I said I was not a social professor, I meant that I’m not a teacher in the social sciences and I really have no formal training in sociology, physcology, or any of the social sciences. I was speaking from what I’ve experienced in my life, not from formal training.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Please! The stories Clifford Salmon posted were about violent acts that took place on, or around, or with reference to schools. They were not about frustrated professors blowing off steam by “threatening to kill” unnamed people.
Sometimes I’d like to kill people who can’t stay on the topic. Having said that, am I dangerous now? If so, on what basis? If not, why should the the prof?
March 17th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
This is a corrected comment:
Please! The stories Clifford Salmon posted were about violent acts that took place on, or around, or with reference to schools. They were not about frustrated professors blowing off steam by “threatening to kill” unnamed people.
Sometimes I’d like to “kill” people who can’t stay on the topic. Having said that, am I dangerous now? If so, on what basis? If not, why should the the prof be considered dangerous?
March 17th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
The stories I posted were about violence occurring at certain schools and institutions of higher learning. Instructors, students, and staff make up the general population of educational venues. Some individuals attending these schools were either killed or maimed for life physically or psychologically because someone was frustrated with society, the school, a select group of instructors or students and vented his/her rage on people violently which indicates the expressed rage was not a ‘joke’. Someone’s rage was ‘real’. The bottom line was that there were victims of that rage. We are living in a different world where threats are taken seriously because threats have been carried out. The professor should have known better.
By the way, considering the results of the professor’s posting, would anyone else say the same thing on Facebook?
March 17th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Clifford,
Your links had nothing to do with this story. One was a Professor who killed a colleague. Another a man who killed a woman who happened to be a Special Education Teacher. A third was a high school student who blew himself up. None of the stories showed any pattern of a “harmless” threat before hand. Taking stories from anywhere and anytime and somehow using that to justify the sky is falling and we are all in danger is silly. Threats that are made to a specific person or class or group should be investigated thoroughly. Nonspecific comments made in jest (and yes, the emoticon was visible and seen as words are read, not after) made weeks apart do not constitute a threat to students, faculty, or a university. It might warrant talking to the faculty member, but not suspension.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Anyone ever heard of someone reaching a boiling point and then hiring a hit man (discrete or otherwise) to be violent for them? To get rid of a spouse without going through divorce, yes. For financial gain, yes. For revenge against a specific person. Yes. To vent frustration on an unamed population of students? Ridiculous. No reasonable person would take this seriously as a real threat.
March 18th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Most people are not sociopaths. So you don’t have to worry unless your stalker is a sociopath.
March 18th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Most people are not terrorists, so you don’t have to worry unless the airline passenger is a terrorist.
Most drivers don’t get into accidents, so a driver doesn’t need to wear a seat belt unless they are in an accident.
The problem is, we don’t know which stalkers are sociopaths, which passengers are terrorists, and which drivers will get into an accident. So we have rules and regs protecting the people themselves and the general public against the rare cases.
Most of the arguments against suspension have been along the line of “The teacher was, in all likelihood, not a real killer. She was only joking.” But, when does society in general or a university in paticular deem the risk of a rare case to be too great? That is the real question we have been struggling with and I don’t know of an easy answer.
March 25th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
I think the action the school took was ridiculous and humiliating to the professor. I teach at a community college. If I really wanted to kill a student would I announce it on Facebook? Would I try to recruit a hitman on a social networking site. I don’t think so.
However, the appropriate administrator should have takent he professor aside and told her that what she wrote was inappropriate and to refrain from further comments.
December 29th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
In this case, the admin has no choice but to suspend. Professors (and I am one) must maintain higher standards. If one has directly experienced tragedy in any academic institution, he/she would certainly understand the need to do this. This is the way it is, and must be, in today’s world.