Should student be punished? You decide
August 11, 2009 by Geneva ReidPosted in: Enrollment, In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views, Student Life
Should a student be punished for a lie his parents told to get him into a top college?
The story goes back to 2006 in the Chinese city of Chongqing.
The parents of He Chuanyang reportedly changed his ethnic status (to one of China’s minority ethnic groups) so he’d have a better chance of being accepted by top-ranked Beijing University.
In China, students must take a national college entrance exam. And if they’re a minority, they get extra points that boost their score.
Ironically, He Chuanyang had scored the highest of any student in Chongqing – and had already been accepted by Beijing U.
But once university authorities learned he – along with 30 other students – had lied about being a minority, they wouldn’t allow He Chuanyang to enroll.
And the 17-year-old boy wasn’t the only one who was punished. His father and mother both have been removed from their jobs.
So where does that leave He Chuanyang?
The majority of Chinese who voted in a public opinion poll don’t think he should be punished for his parents’ lie. And since his original test scores were high enough to earn him an acceptance letter from Beijing U, most respondents – including professors – think he should be allowed to enroll.
Do you agree with them? Let us know in the comments section below.
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Tags: Beijing University, Chonqing, He Chuanyang
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August 12th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Yep, package deal – doesn’t matter if the student or the parents lied to gain an unfair advantage over other students. Doesn’t matter how well or poorly the student did on the exam. I would suggest the student sit out a year, retake the exam with accurate credentials and then see if he qualifies for admittance.
August 12th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
A fact is a fact and a lie is still a lie. The son despite his ‘best in class’ test scores that would’ve gained him admission anyway are tainted by the lying of his parents. Now the would-be student and his parents are dealing with the consequences. The denial of admission is reasonable, the parents dismissal from their jobs is another story altogether. The ‘authorities’ are dealing with nearly 3 dozen other liars as well. There is a fundamental issue of institutionalized test score curving that candidates are trying to exploit. That practice ought to sound very familiar to a lot of educators. Yet another misguided policy where the just the symptoms are being addressed.
August 12th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
The school is right. If the result of an illegal action is allowed to stand, then others will be tempted to do the same thing with the belief that they will accept the penalty as long as the result is accepted. Disallowing the result will limit the temptation to do illegal actions.
August 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I agree with the other comments. Lies and deception cannot be rewarded. The student learns the hard lesson that you are accountable for your actions. It is irrelevant if this student would have otherwise been accepted for enrollment. Perhaps as Kevin suggested, another chance to re-apply in the following year seems reasonable.
The parents loosing their jobs is a punishment that is too severe. Yes they lied, but this was not related to their job. The punishment should relate to the crime.
August 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
No. I told my kids they can put whatever ethnic background they wanted. If they feel white, put while, if hispanic, put hispanic. I dont believe that information is important and we can be and feel whatever we want. I dont care what statistics you want to get, that is non of anyone’s business and we can put whatever we want to put!
August 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I agree the race/nationality/creed information shouldn’t be relevant however it was made an integral part of the entrance exams. The latter is simply fact. The identification of ethnicity is a fundamental issue I alluded to earlier. Someone at Beijing University felt it was important to put it there, make it their business to check for accuracy and enforce the consequences. None of us have to like it. Painting a green house with purple spots and calling it an elephant doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a house.
August 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
A lie is a lie. Some lies give someone an advantage and some cause a problem for someone. If some lies are OK, what are the limits? Are they variable? If you had someone tell a lie about you that cost you something, you would not be so loose about lying.
August 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
We all tell small lies. My mother used to call them “white lies” and they were okay because it got us what we wanted and usually did not effect others. It is unfortunate but in order to stay afloat in life sometimes you have to tell these “white lies”. Sometimes they do effect others and that is the time we have to weigh the pros and cons of telling the white lie. Anyone that clams they have never lied to get the results they want has already told a lie. Be realistic!
August 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I don’t subscribe to your reality.
August 12th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
A “white lie” is still a lie and has consequences. I have told “white lies” in the past and have learned it is best to tell the truth from the beginning. “white lies” have a way to haunt you in the future. I will never tell someone it is OK to lie in any circumstance.
August 13th, 2009 at 6:26 am
I’ve always wondered if there is an analog in this country with Native American admissions credentials? I’ve heard that oral histories are an acceptable proof of ancestry due to lack of written records.
In any case, having the student re-take the exam the next year sounds like an appropriate response.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:06 am
“Should student be punished?”
You bet.
The facts speak for itself.
We recently experienced a student who lied on her application in order to get federal money for school.
She also lied about plagiarizing her term paper.
And the sad part was, she didn’t see anything wrong in doing it.
Ah…the culture of “blame anyone but me”.
We are only as good as our name.
If we lie once, we’ll most likely lie again.
You can make a sure bet that Chuanyang will lie on his resume when he applies for a job.
A leopard cannot change its spots.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:15 am
While I totally disagree with Michelle’s reasoning, I don’t think there’s enough information in the article to judge whether the student should be punished or not. He may not have even known his parents lied on the application. Or he may have vehemently disapproved, but because of China’s cultural mores had no choice but to go along with it or stay silent about it. It’s not fair to punish him if he didn’t know and/or approve. Of course, it’s difficult to determine that after the fact, so I agree with the other commenters who say to let him wait a year and try again.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:17 am
“You can make a sure bet that Chuanyang will lie on his resume when he applies for a job.
A leopard cannot change its spots.”
That is totally unfair to the kid. It’s his parents lie, and again, we don’t know if he even knew about it, let alone approved of it.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:53 am
A lie is a lie.
However, school officials need to wake up to the facts about why parents would have to decide to lie in order to do their job best: Parenting in a competitive and rough environment. These parents were certainly aware of their own punishments, yet they decided to risk “losing face” – and they did.
I am against punishment. I am in favor of establishing a common effort analyzing a situation in which parents have to lie in order to support their children. School administration might take this opportunity to shine a light of Humanity, allow the students to study within a “probationary period” to allow them to live up to their abilities, – as well as their parents. Inhumane systems don’t need support, they need humans.
August 13th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
The punishment for the student seems fair, if he is allowed a process to try again later after a required stand-down period. If it is permanent, then he has been condemned to a non-life. This is espescially evident in regards to the parents that instead of being fined or imprisoned for a suitable time, have been fired from their jobs (and likely any job).
If the student was working, he probably would also have been fired, and have the same non-life option. It could become a fate worse than capital punishment.
Regard a “leopard cannot change its spots”, this belies the whole process of education to teach knowledge and better behavior. There are indeed people who will never learn from their mistakes or circumstances. To say that all people can never learn is to say everyone for every little incident. Who or what does that leave you with? Eventually very few people.
I also do not believe in lies being the norm. I don’t tell them. I either answer correctly or omit the answer an then the recipient follows their own procedure. And discrimination for any purpose is no answer to cure anything in the long run. If they want to allow certain applicants lower entry scores, then everyone should be allowed to apply with lower entry scores and other criteria be used to determine if the student is a good candidate. If they want to supply extra tutoring to a qualified ethnic groop to improve their test scores, then do that. Don’t set up a cause (or reason) to discriminate.
August 13th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Whether or not this was cheating depends on how ethnicity is defined. In the United States, it is self identified, so there is really no such thing as lying about this. In China, perhaps it is defined by primary language at home, town of birth, or some other objective criteria. The article doesn’t say.
But even if this was cheating, the student should not be punished for the actions of his parents. Unless the student signed the falsified document, he has no responsibility for its contents. The punishment for the parents should assessed according to the laws of China, but losing their jobs seems extreme.
August 14th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Michelle – I would agree just about everyone has told a lie. However, one must be punished for the consequences when it’s revealed. The severity of this family’s lie can’t be justified or excused. Although their punishment seems a bit severe, it will send a message to others NOT to do this or look at what could happen. I would hope the son will be able to apply again next year successfully. Sadly, in the US we are way too lenient when things of this nature happen. People are quick to make excuses and blame everyone else. Take some responsibility – and learn from your mistakes. Michelle – I would suggest you lay off on the ‘white lies’ as they will eventually come back around and bite you in the ‘rearend’. Been there – done that!
August 14th, 2009 at 10:30 am
So the salient question is “Should the student be punished?” On the face of it, yes. Dig deeper and we see there are circumstances that can be difficult to untangle/prove. This much is known, the entrance exam paperwork contained inconsistent ethnicity information. The authorities redressed the situation in their own way. I feel the parents punishment in the article could have been left out. It’s just not relevant. Back to the student…the article only states that Beijing University will not allow him to enroll. That’s a broad statement lacking context. Can he ever enroll in the future? Can he enroll elsewhere now or in the future? We just don’t know those answers because the article is incomplete and leaves readers to jump to conclusions.
Eric F: the student that provided dishonest information on the paperwork to get a federal grant and stole the writings of another person is wrong. Period. At any rate, the student falsified a US government document. Since federal grant money is involved, then we’re talking about a federal offense. The student not seeing anything wrong in what she did could indicate she’s acting out some very serious personality issues.
Honesty regardless of the circumstances is a demonstration of personal character.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Student was punished by the school. Did the parents lost their jobs through some other avenue of judgement? I imagine.