What the new immigration law means for colleges
May 13, 2010 by Geneva ReidPosted in: Enrollment, In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views
Colleges in one state are already feeling the effects of a law that will crack down on illegal immigrants. And it doesn’t stop there. The controversial immigration law is viewed as the toughest legislation in the country. It was passed by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer in late April.
The law doesn’t specifically regulate colleges — but the mood is tense right now on Arizona campuses:
- University of Arizona President Robert Shelton says a number of out-of-state honors students have told the school they’ll be enrolling somewhere else.
- Shelton says numerous students, faculty and staff are worried they’ll be detained without reason by police.
- At Maricopa Community Colleges, officials are concerned the law will have a negative impact on undocumented students who were brought to the U.S. illegally by their parents.
Here are the bare bones of the law’s most controversial provision:
- Police are to make a “reasonable attempt” to determine the immigration status of anyone they encounter as a result of a “lawful contact,” if they reasonably suspect the person is in the country illegally.
- Police generally can’t rely solely on race, color or national origin as a reason to seek proof of legal immigration status.
(A pdf version of the full text of the law is here.)
Critics are concerned the law will encourage racial profiling. They say police officers only need to come up with the pretext of a minor offense in order to check someone’s immigration status.
But a recent Gallup poll shows 51% of Americans favor the law, citing the nation’s 10.8 million illegal immigrants who are taking advantage of education, health care and other services.
Yet at colleges such as the University of Arizona, the campus is clearly worried in spite of Provost Elizabeth D. Capaldi’s statement: “We will ensure that the new law not be misinterpreted or misapplied.”
Meanwhile, just days ago, Pennsylvania lawmakers introduced a bill modeled after the Arizona law. Who’s next?
How do you think this new law will affect college campuses?
Let us know what you think in the comments section below.
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Tags: illegal immigration, new immigration law, University of Arizona
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May 12th, 2010 at 10:43 am
This is a law which should have been in place many years ago to prevent this exact scenario from happening. It was all just a matter of time – not ‘if’, but ‘when’. When people come into this country illegally, they KNOW it’s breaking the law but continue to take advantage of the system and hope they don’t get caught – or worse, the laws change. Meanwhile, their ‘anchor’ children are the one’s held in the ‘crossfire’.
My question is if students are all of a sudden withdrawing and moving to other states, are they legal in the first place? Otherwise, why such a rush to move on? If they are, in fact, here legally but trying to make a ‘statement’ about the law by threatening to move, they’re going about it all wrong – sort of like “cutting off your nose to spite your face”. The law CLEARLY states police cannot go around harassing people to see their ID’s – UNLESS there is suspicion of a possible criminal action taking place. Isn’t it obvious if you’re obeying the law – not doing any activity which may bring some question (i.e., drunk and disorderly, dui, grafitti, and even loitering in a high crime area) one shouldn’t feel threatened. If you do happen to be stopped, have your ID. Don’t most students carry their ID’s with them? I don’t see the big deal about having to carry ID since most people do this anyhow! When my son was living in San Diego, he and his friends would often go to Tijuana. However, there’s NO WAY they would dare set foot there without their ID’s according to THEIR laws. So why should we change the laws here if it’s the same in Mexico?
While I feel sorry for the ‘anchor’ children, the blame MUST be placed on their parents and their decision to enter a country illegally. If I decide to up and move to Mexico – just cross the border and set up household, eventually they will catch up to me and arrest me if I can’t prove the proper documentation and protocol has been completed. THAT”S A FACT YOU CAN TAKE TO THE BANK! So if I can’t do this in their country, why do they think they can do it in our country?
If students are leaving the colleges and universities for fear of ‘getting caught’ there’s something more sinister going on – for which I would say, “don’t let the door hit you in the backside as you’re leaving”. There will be more students looking to take their place.
May 12th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Mel, you clearly demonstrate the subtle implication of profiling. Making the assumption that all “just got off the banana boat” – you fail to understand that generations have been here, even in Arizona, since the 1600′s.
You mention of nothing of illegal crossings on Canadian border: Asian/European/Middle East. WTF
“We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.”
May 12th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
THE ISSUE IS NOT MERELY ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT STATUS, IN FACT IT IS AN ISSUE OF CIVIL RIGHTS. FIRST, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY READ THE DOCUMENT TO NOTE THAT ID IS NOT SIMPLY ID- A DRIVER’S LICENSE IS NOT ENOUGH PROOF- IT WOUDL REQUIRE PASSPORT AND/OR BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR RESIDENCE CARD- ALL DOCUMENTS THAT MOST PEOPLE DO M=NOT CARRY AROUND B/C THE POTENTIAL FOR GETTING LOST. THIS MIRRORS, VERY CLOSELY AUTHORITARIAN (FASCIST), PRACTICES… THE UNITED STATES SO MANY CLAIM EXISTS “LAND OF THE FREE” RESPECT FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES, THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SEPARATE U.S. IDEALS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES HAS JUST VANISHED. SHOULD THE FEDERAL GOVT GET TO WORK ON COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION BILL? ABSOLUTELY! SECURING THE BORDER IS FEDERAL JURISDICTION. THE OTHER MATTER REGARDING POSSIBLE RACIAL PROFILING IS A LEGITIMATE ONE. IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN STOPPED BY AUTHORITIES SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, THEN YOU JUST WONT UNDERSTAND THE POTENTIAL FOR POSSIBLE RACIAL PROFILING. THE LAW IS RATHER VAGUE AND UNCLEAR ABOUT WHAT “REASONABLE” ENTAILS. IS RACIAL PROFILING ILLEGAL? YES IT DOES. DOES THAT MEAN IT DOES NOT HAPPEN? NO IT DOES NOT. THERE IS DE JURE AND DE FACTO (BY LAW, BY PRACTICE). RACIAL PROFILING IS BY LAW ILLEGAL, BUT BY PRACTICE IT HAPPENS. THE LAW MIGHT AS WELL DICTATE THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WEAR A DARK STAR ON THEIR CLOTHES… YES THIS IS THE END OF A SO-CALLED FREE UNITED STATES.
STUDENTS ARE TAKING A STAND, WHETHER THEY GO TO ARIZONA UNIVERSITIES OR NOT. THAT IS THEIR CHOICE. IN ASSUMING THAT THE STUDENTS REFUSING TO ATTEND ARIZONA SCHOOLS ARE ILLEGAL THEN YOU ARE PROFILING BASED ON LEGAL STATUS. IS IT SO FAR-FETCHED TO GIVE YOUNG PEOPLE CREDIT FOR TAKING A STAND (WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH IT OR NOT) FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN? THERE ARE PLENTY OF STUDENTS THAT WILL IN FACT ATTEND, ARE THEY AUTOMATICALLY DEEMED OF LEGAL STATUS? YOUR LOGIC IS DEEPLY FLAWED.
I AM SURE YOUR SON IS MORE CONCERNED WITH BEING ABLE TO RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES FROM TIJUANA AND HIS ID AFFORDS HIM SOME TYPE OF PROTECTION IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. IN MANY CASES THE FLAWS IN THIS IMMIGRATION LAW AND FAILURE TO CLARIFY WHO WILL GET STOPPED AND ASKED FOR ID (AND NOT SIMPLY A DRIVER’S LICENSE) WILL CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE CITIZENS UNABLE OR UNWILLING TO PROVIDE PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP/LEGAL STATUS WILL BE HARASSED OR WORSE. FEDERAL LAW STATES THAT VERBAL ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CITIZENSHIP SUFFICE. ARIZONA LAW FDOES NOT OVERRIDE FEDERAL LAW.
May 12th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Mel, how right you are, on all accounts. Yes, there will be more “American citizens” in line for these colleges because more of our tax dollars will be available for your kids and mine when illegal consumers are not draining our tax supported programs. It’s a logical conclusion that illegal is unlawful, so I support what Arizona has implemented. Arizona has simply reaffirmed the law that illegal aliens are “illegal”. I truly hope that other states quickly follow suit. Of course we know it isn’t that fault of the children brought here or born here, but that does not excuse the crime of their parents.
Legal citizens contribute to the system and are Americans. We appreciate the privileges afforded us in educational opportunities which include college assistance. We honor our language, our history, our religious freedom, and we share pride in being U.S. citizens. If you want to immigrate to the United States I am all for that, but do it legally or you and your family face the consequence of breaking our federal and state laws and do not belong here.
May 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Reply to Mel:
I am legally here in America, working for couple of years. I am from Europe and I am quite lucky I have great job and employer who is sponsoring my green card. But as I see from Mel`s reaction:I will always stay stranger here, whose kids don`t have same rights go to shools here. I have two kids (American citizens, born in America) and I am quite surprise about the bill and 51% of people agreeing with it. America is country formed from different cultures and races coming here for decades so who is really real American (native Indians?), what kid has really right to visit this schools, use this health and social system. All those Mexican kids born here, so automaticaly American`s now, you want to send them back to Mexico with their parents, because they are taking spaces in the schools? So if somebody immigrated here 50 years ago because of for exmp. communism, but came here illegally after all, we should also deport him and his whole family? Have you ever looked to your roots Mel, are you sure you are 100% pure American???
May 12th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Lola, there is nothing in Mel’s comments that say you or your children who are legally in the U.S. are unwelcome or strangers, where did you read that?
You are not strangers when you are working towards the goal of becoming Americans. We appreciate that you are willing to earn this right instead of disregarding our laws to take advantage of our good faith by false pretense. Living in the U.S. illegally is a denunciation in the face of former immigrants and American citizens who are neighbors. Illegal aliens violate American citizen’s civil rights by ruining the integrity of our laws, faithlessly accepting our monetary resources and expecting American generosity without obligation to contribute equally and no plan to become one of us.
I believe most American citizens are happy to welcome new immigrants, from any nation, regardless of their heritage. We are a people with open hearts and minds. We believe that the poor and oppressed will prosper when they become a part of us by embracing our nation as their own. That is the key, if you want to become one of us, please do so in the same way as 100s of millions of immigrants have in coming to the U.S. legally. If you are here legally you are contributing equally to our society and we will share our nation with pleasure as you strive to join together with us.
May 12th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Texas law permits illegal immigrants who have lived in Texas for some time and graduated from high school to attend Texas state universities at the resident tuition rate. Essentially we are talking about illegal immigrants who came as children and grew up in Texas. The logic is that they are as Texan as the next person, so they should be educated. There was little controversy when the law passed, although the Arizona law has inspired some students to agitate against the resident tuition law. There is no chance a law like Arizona’s would pass in Texas. Even strong conservatives like Governor Perry are against it.
May 12th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Magics word, I was trying to say that no everybody are so lucky to have education and kind of money backround so they can come here legally as me or other legal immigrants and I really feel sorry for some peolpe who maybe don`t have other choices to give them and their families better lifes. I was pointing that if you look back, how many Americans from last century came here as illegal immigrants but fortunately that time american law was different and there was a way to come legal more easly, so how many Americans now are these KIDS, which were born here and have their chance to go to schools here and use all advantages of this country….
May 12th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Thais, you are absolutely wrong. Effective January 31, 2008 Federal Law requires documentation of proof of citizenship for any entry into the U.S., verbal acknowledgment is not accepted. Please cite your references rather than make broad unfounded statements that are assumed on your part. Where do you get your information from? Do you intentionally incite people with false pretense?
http://www.dhs.gov/files/laws/bordersecurity.shtm Homeland Security Laws & Regulations
http://www.cdt.org/security/20080825_BCI_SORN.pdf System of Records Notice 73 Fed. Reg. 43457
The docket in .pdf format references records of border crossings north and south. Every individual, including documented Americans returning across either border, must provide proof of citizenship. Every individual is recorded and photographed. The law requires these records kept for 15 years.
If you want accurate information here is a research resource with continual updates and archived documentation: http://migrationpolicy.org/research/usimmigration.php
By the way, it is considered rude to write in caps. Most people see it as shouting and disrespectful.
May 12th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Lola,
It’s not a matter of how you feel. Of course millions of people would like to move to the US. I would like to see an immigration policy that was more rational. However, the US has limited resources and has the obligation to defend its’ borders. Last century there was no immigration law so there were no illegal aliens. The Arizona law simply gives the state the right to enforce Federal law. No more, no less. The law stipulates that stops cannot be racially based.
As for Thais, I don’t know where to start. How about you look up reductio ad absurdum. Enforcing federal law is not akin to Nazi practices. If you want a comparison take a look at Mexican immigration law.
Arizona has acted rationally in the face of more than a decade of deliberate neglect from both parties.
May 12th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
How is this bill benefical to any state that relies on sales tax and tourism to have countless manufacturers,tourist, conventions, events and moratoriums pull out or
places on travel to and with Az? This state is in financial ruin and this will only compound the issues existing not to mention the loss of sales tax that were paid by undocumented indiviuals shopping, they don’t realize the buying power of this large group at a time when we drastically need every cent we can get. This proven further by the point that there is a one cent sales taxes proposed for basic service and we are banishing an entire group of shoppers. This is a federal issue not a state, who is Az to think that they are bigger than the USA? Law enforcement officals have not been properly trained on the various documents and how to avoid racial profiling; the people trained are federal officers not Ciyt of Phoenix,Toucson, Buckeye or even the Maricopa County Sheriff’s office.
Mel, legal US citizens AND international students attending Arizona school on visas are withdrawing in record numbers.In terms of the undocumented students, unlike TX they pay full tutition like their international and out of state counterparts. Despite living in Arizona their entire memorable lives. So these students are not “benefiting” by “abusing tax payers monies”
Its a horrible idea and designed to target one group, and if it succeeds then who’s next. We as a country have a horrible history of targeting people without voices…obviously we have not learned our lesson. Remember, we have many people who “look” undocumented that will be targeted and made victims of this law. Where are their voices, who will tand up for them when the country turns their back upon them?
May 12th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
California also has a law similar to that of Texas. As a naturalized citizen who went through all the required rules/regulations as well as red tapes, and paid all the required fees, I feel that the existance of illegls in this country is an insult to my efforts.
As everyone knows, if you are a foreign student who would like to study in UC or CSU systems, you need to follow through all the legal requirements including providing financial proof to receive a F-1 visa. If you are a out of state American by birth, you are still less likely to be accepted into UC or CSU due to the limited number of students these two systems can accept. Both F-1 visa students and out-of-state Americans, even after being accepted, are required to pay out-of-state tutitions. Children of illegals or illegals themselves are here by breaking our laws. They should not have more entitlements than foreign students or Americans from out-of-state.
Another example, my sister and her husband came here under F-1 visa to study advanced degrees. After received their degrees (both Ph.Ds) They worked under H1B visas for high tech companies. After a few years, due to economic downturn, their visas did not get extended. Instead of staying here illegally and claiming current immigration law separates families, they took their American born children back to their home country. When their U.S. citizen children came back for college, they still have to pay out-of-state tutitions.
Don’t tell me this is “civil right” issue. Only citizens and legal residents are entitled to civil rights in the United States. Giving illegals any kind of benefits or allowing them to stay is a big insult to someone like my sister and her American born children who abid the law.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
I live in a town where many illegals have settled. We are paying the price big time here. They are living numerous families in one tax unit set up to support 2.5 children per family per tax unit. With numerous families living in one tax unit far more than 2.5 children are going to our public schools. Classroom trailers are being put in playgrounds. Spanish teachers are being hired instead of the children learning English. As a result our realestate taxes are going up every year.
When our authorities move to enforce the laws here these illegals cry discrimination or racial profiling threatening to take the town to court.
Signage is in Spanish. Walgreens plays Mexican music. Spanish newspapers are being delivered to our doors. Our auto insurance is up in this area because we have so many illegals driving without a liscense or a bogus one. They can not read the road signs and some of them have never driven a car in their lives. If one of these folks hit you your insurance pays because they have none. Or factories here are jammed with illegals while my brother goes unhired.
The illegals here show no indication of assimilating. They seem to think something is owed them. The term “illegal” means nothing to them.
So those of you that don’t live with these conditions on a daily basis need to put yourselves in our place before you cry big tears for these folks that have broken the law and are now breaking our towns. If this is not gotten under control it will soon come to your town also.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
To Lola, Thais and anyone else who considers my comment ‘racist’: It’s never enough for one to just say they’re not racist (I’m not) and I’m going to share a little of my experience:
First off, my oldest son I mentioned above is ‘bi-racial’ in the sense of the word. His paternal grandmother was an ‘illegal’ who had to stay in Mexico for long periods while her children were growing up in the USA with their born-in-the-US Hispanic (and alcoholic) father. My son served honorably in the USMC but is now mentally disabled as a result of military duty in Iraq. We’ve been fighting for 5 years for his VA benefits. At this point, illegal aliens have better health care by showing up at any emergency room than he does. Is this fair?
Secondly, I work for a graduate program at a large university and receive hundreds of applications every year for our program. At least one-third of these come from international students. Some of these international applicants come from the poorest of poor parts of the world (many from China and India) highly qualified but sometimes don’t have all the requirements (test scores) due to their financial constraints. Lola, you have no idea how it feels to read some of their personal statements from people who want to come to the USA beyond belief for their education. They can’t afford to take the required tests and we are not permitted to make exceptions. If we did, we’d have to do it for everyone to be ‘fair’. BUT, there are situations where we aren’t ‘fair’ in the sense of the word – due to minority admissions. Universities receive a decent amount of federal funds based on their programs to encourage minority participation. If we don’t bring in enough of these students, it ‘looks’ bad in the eyes of affirmative action. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in this system because we must do what we can for any group who haven’t received the same quality of education or opportunities due to the economic climate of their neighborhood. Just recently, my coworkers and I went so far as to put our own jobs at stake for a minority applicant we were sure had been unfairly overlooked for admission by a committee member. Long story short, this student will begin their graduate studies this fall. Were there other students equally or more ‘qualified’? Absolutely. When you consider the international applicants I mentioned above who want to come here for our high quality programs but have to be turned down for a less-qualified minority, is this fair?
Another point that continually arises is the issue over all the immigrants who came here decades ago as ‘illegal’ when they arrived at Ellis Island. Points to ponder is they were willing – and DID – acclimate to the LAWS and requirements to become a U.S. citizen. They received NO handouts by the U.S. govt. and used their own sweat and blood to eek out a living. They paid their way with hard work and ethics. They learned our language and proudly displayed the US flag. When so many of our current illegal aliens only honor or display the flag of Mexico or display it ABOVE the American flag, is this fair to all the ‘illegal’ immigrants who were proud to honor their new homeland?
The topic of people who came here to escape communism or any other form of repression is moot since they can apply for refugee/political asylum so long as they can prove their lives would be in danger if they returned to their homeland. And they should be allowed asylum if it’s too dangerous of an environment to return to. But to just come to the U.S. illegally for “a better life” is grossly unfair to the millions of other people throughout the world who also deserve this ‘better life’ but follow the laws.
Several years ago, my father bought a business and retained the employees already there. One of them was in the U.S. illegally and had been here for years. Dad will tell you he was the hardest working man he’d ever had the pleasure and honor of employing. His mother was still living in Tijuana and he would always send her a portion of his paycheck. He would also go to visit her a few times a year at great risk of getting caught and at a high price to be smuggled back in to the U.S. He couldn’t read or write but made an effort to learn. When my Dad realized all this man had to go through to see his Mom across the border, he hired a lawyer – spent thousands – to help him become a legal citizen. He remained loyal and when my Dad sold the business, it was ONLY under the terms the new owners would continue to honor and respect this man’s hard work and devotion to his employer.
There are so many other points I could bring up on this subject but it’s a waste of time when many people feel an overwhelming sense of ‘entitlement’. Let’s face it: Life isn’t FAIR! But that’s the way it is and you either play by the rules and succeed, or you can walk around your entire life and stay bitter because you were born into the wrong family, the wrong country or the wrong time.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
You all are so selfish! You complain about “illegal immigrants” but so many opf you would never dothe jobs that they do. Quite frankly, I see it as a double standard. You all complain about them having the benefits which you have but this is indeed selfish. Take students on F1 visas for example, ie. international students–when these students work, Medicare and Medicaid taxes are imposed on them /removed from their paychecks, yet they are not allowed to benefit from these federal programs. Essentially, these international students are paying for the care of American citizens and are paying over 4 times the tuition of in-state students in order to get an education.Now, do you think this is fair?
You seem to be angry about you paying for other people yet other people are covering your behind. Your taxes support people in the prisons, people with illnesses that were self-inflicted or caused through faults of their own…do you complain about that? You all need to stop being so selfish. This life is too short to complain about these petty things. Give other people a chance and get a life!
May 13th, 2010 at 2:25 am
Hispanics will be the large majority very soon in this country, specifically in the Southwest. I am sure they will remember what is being done to them in the so-called “spirit of respecting the law”….. I would love to see all illegal immigrants currently living in Arizona leave the state, so that the 51% of americans who support this racist law can witness the tremendous NEGATIVE financial effects this will have on the Arizona economy…. silly people.
Illegal immigrants are homeowners and contribute greatly in our nation’s economy.
Who ever said illegal immigrants don’t work OR pay taxes? What an absurdity.
May 13th, 2010 at 6:51 am
Wrapping an illegal alien in an American flag won’t make them any more of a legal US Citizen. Heck, I don’t like it much if he were legal. Seems to degrade the honor due the Flag, even if George Washington were wearing it.
—
Illegal aliens are using resources and funds that would normally go to legal US Citizens. If uninvited guests walked through your front door, or climbed through your bathroom window and started using your commode, or cooking on your stove, or laying on your sofa, watching your TV, sleeping in your bed, you would “probably” have a problem with that. You would know exactly what to do. You would either call the police, or do something yourself to get the uninvited “guest” out of your home.
You say, “illegal immigration isn’t that way at all.” Well, yes it is.
If you want to get angry at someone, why not let the government officials of the countries where illegal aliens come from know that they aren’t treating their citizens right.
May 13th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Sorry for caps, I speak 4 different languages but I am not genius so I don`t know everything yet,every little detail yet. Well in my country is not disrespectful neither shouting…and you told me that I am not and won`t be stranger here…and you correcting my mistakes, well done. I hope your russian and spanish is at least as good as my english…
May 13th, 2010 at 9:38 am
These illegal people are the ones that work the hardest for pennies, they do not have rights and not even get paid minimum wage, and in my personal opinion they should go after the employers for providing poor working conditions and hiring illegal.
And what do you tell me about working an outside environment picking up vegetables and fruits are the “legal citizens doing this job” of course not, – it is the illegal immigrants that are performing these type of tasks, working under the sun for 14 hours, cleaning, disinfecting, working under inclement weather conditions, and after all there hard work, reality is that they deserve better treatment because whether you like it or not they do a lot, and maybe they did commit an illegal action by entering illegal in to our Country, that is the Country fault but that does not mean they are criminals, no they are not they are people that deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
May 13th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Thais, You should read the law before writing about how it mirrors fascist practices. The law does not require a passport or birth certificate. I’ve copied a section of the law below and it clearly states that a valid Arizona driver license or any other ststes valid license will suffice. The holder will not be presumed to be here illegally.
You serve to obstruct the truth and true justice by spreading misinformation. It is your actions that actually mirrow fascist practices.
A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
May 13th, 2010 at 10:32 am
One problem with this law is that EVERYONE will be required to carry valid ID with proof of nationality on them AT ALL TIMES! This means that whenever you step out of the house, whether to walk to a neighbor’s house, walk to the conveniece store to buy milk (and pay with cash), go for a jog (or ride a bike), or are a PASSENGER in a car.
After all, if you are unable to prove to the cops that you are here legally, the cops will have to arrest you and hold you until someone can provide proof as to who you are.
And if the cops are afraid of claims of racial profiling, this means that they will start checking EVERYONE.
Do you really want to have to carry IDs and papers with you at all times?
May 13th, 2010 at 10:52 am
I agree that something needs to be done about illegal immigration, but this law does amount to racial profiling and racism. It is specifically targeted to those who “seem” to be illegal aliens. I’m fairly confident that any white, European illegal alien in this country will not find themselves approach for minor infractions and asked for proof of legal residency. To think otherwise is to ignore the rich history of racial problems that have existed in this country for years.
It wasn’t too terribly long ago that police in California and other states were beating up black youth and planting crack on them – all documented incidents, and luckily not as prevelant now. But to assume that this law is an answer to the problem is silly. If you are a legal resident who happens to be of latino heritage, should you really be required to carry around ID at all times? I know I don’t always carry ID. And, I know that someone who is of latino background would be getting asked for that information before I, as a white male, ever would. I think the concern isn’t so much about protecting those here illegally, as it is about civil rights for those who are here legally either through VISA status or as full citizens.
May 13th, 2010 at 10:53 am
As the daughter of a LEGAL immigrant, I whole-heartedly support the Arizona Law. We should have been protecting our borders all along. My father waited years to become a naturalized citizen here in America. I truly thank this country for all it has given my family. No, I’m not from south of the border, but from the north, and I love America, its freedoms and opportunities.
Those people who come across the border illegally and pilage America should be thrown in jail and/or deported! \
Bless the people who have come into our system legally. They know the price they and their families have paid and they know how fortunate they are to be living in this country.
May 13th, 2010 at 11:19 am
TruthSeeker – I have a drivers licence, but never had to show citizenship to get it, so that would not qualify as valid ID. I guess I will have to cary my passport when I travel thru Arizona. How do they know if #4 applies when an ID is shown them? How long would it take them to determine what is required to get an ID?
As to doing something illegal and getting asked for ID. There are so many laws that are routinely not applied, that I think that almost anyone can be stopped on some pretext. How about all those “blue laws” that are often quoted as being outdated or silly. They are still laws that a person can be stopped for breaking.
We have a small retail business and have trouble finding people to work for what we can pay. If we raise the price to pay an employee more, the items do not sell. We like to buy American, but most people want American quality at overseas prices – a situation that does not exist. So we cater to the few people who want quality and are willing to pay for it. This effects our sales and what we can pay staff. If we offer more pay, we do not get a better employee. Often they feel they deserve more. I can understand why someone would hire an illegal who is willing to work at the level of pay that the consumer has determined is all that will be paid for the result of the labor. How many of us look for the lowest price – and that determines what will be available for the worker to get paid, and we all want to be the CEO who makes an obscene amount. Or sports star.
May 13th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Ah… humbug, maybe you don’t, but in my wallet I carry about 6 forms of ID, and I believe everyone else I know is about the same. I have a drivers license, which most states require specific identification to obtain, social security card, I have my health insurance card and they requires proof of identity which includes social security or birth certificate, also my concealed weapon permit, a couple bank cards, my proof of auto insurance. I would go nowhere without these. Does anyone else carry nothing unless there is something suspicious about their activities?
May 13th, 2010 at 11:39 am
I carry identification with me now..my driver’s liscense, voter’s card etc. I would be more than happy to drop my birth certificate in my purse as well. What is one more piece of paper?
I wonder how resistant you would be about proving citizenship if you were living with the problems that even the law abiding illegals create in a community when there are thousands of them increasing taxes using up social services, jamming emergency rooms and changing the cultural environment of your town? If you live in an area that does not have low income housing your are not experiencing this. We can not afford to allow all of the citizens of Mexico to move here especially with their attitude of entitlement.
May 13th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Calm down Americans!…Stick with the issue at hand, stop personalizing and stop “racially profiling” one another’s views (no pun intended). Wake up and realize that this is the year 2010, not for instance, 1850 (e.g., during the Irish potatoe famine mass migrations to America’s shores). Arizona represents all of the other states immigration problems, especially the border states with Mexico and Canada, not to mention the waters off the coasts of South Florida. Speaking of history, how would YOU like to have come to America’s shores, then be naturalized during the 1850s, and be drafted into the Army to fight for the North or the South during the Civil War years? If not that, if you were Chinese, you would be forced to build railroads connecting over 3,000 miles of railways through impassible terrain from the west with the east (check out Golden Spike, Utah where my Russian wife and I went years ago). If you were African, you were a slave or a runaway slave…if you were of —whatever—-descent…the list goes on and on and on. This is not to mention the hundreds of native American tribes who saw white, brown, black, yellow among other “foreigners” come from across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans to their ancestral lands without an invitation, that eventually took over and became their oppressors? Well, life’s not fair…. When was it ever the case? We have what we have here regardless of our respective ancestral histories…Where do we go from here? Violence and historical revenge are not the answers. We have to have a moral/ethical objective control… In this case, it’s the “law of the land.” If the current laws are not relevant nor just, change the laws, but do it legally through the ballot box and legislation. We must do it with our elected legislators in our respective states. Arizona asked the Obama-era Federal Government which succeeded an impotent Bush era-led government (who had their attention on global terrorism at the expense of the growing domestic economic and immigration crisis at home) the last 15 months, several times to help them out with this problem. They were silent to those pleas and requests. So, Arizona had no choice but to take matters into their own hands to protect their own legal citizens to enforce the existing federal and state immigration laws (please read the entire document provided in the related article link) to address their state of emergency. What has Obama done to address the problem? He has chosen not to lead but incite an already volatile situation. I’m not saying that what has transpired in Arizona is neither all good or all bad, but one thing is for certain, it’s still problem. So, let’s not take sides, let’s unite to ask our governing civil authorities to enforce/enact just laws to address this problem. There MUST be dialogue and healthy debate here! We the People need to lead the way through our voices and through our elected officials. If they won’t or don’t follow our lead, vote them out of office! They are civil servants, namely our servants. They are accountable to their constituents, not to their politicial parties/ideologies. I don’t care if they are Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green Party, Constitution Party, Tea Party, or Rock n’ Roll, Hip Hop Party politicians, just let us hold their feet to the fire and vote them out of office when they don’t represent our views. November’s coming quickly and we all have an opportunity to make positive change in these Congressional elections, but let’s keep not just OUR ancestral ethnic group in mind, but all of America’s divergent people in mind. We can all work together to develop just laws to address this situation with immigration reform, fiscally responsible economic reform, tax reform, re-thinking strategies in our foreign alliances to deal with terrorism and to promote equitable trade, commerce, and exchange, energy reform, etc. This is America! Isn’t this moral/ethical challenge before all of us a great opportunity to etch OUR generation’s names into the historical record for posterity to see that we are a nation that comes together in crisis and turn on the switch that is unique to America’s historical pedigree-The “Can Do” switch. Anyone that doesn’t want to participate in this proactive fashion can sit their lazy butts on their couches and reactively gripe until they fall back into their mind-numbing sleep of yesteryear. While the rest of us fight together, the good fight to forge America ahead into the 21st century and beyond, if the Lord is willing to let it continue. Let’s make it happen in 2010 for all of us! Remember the master teacher’s wise saying regarding the just treatment of others, let’s strive to have laws enforced/enacted that reflect this universal ethos: “Whatever you would have others to do to you, do also to them.”
May 13th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
After reading that:
Gallup poll shows 51% of Americans favor the law, citing the nation’s 10.8 million illegal immigrants who are taking advantage of education, health care and other services.
I don’t feel so guilty that I actually sympathize with Arizona. I think many of us are “in the closet” on this issue.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Regardless of what stance anyone takes here, let’s be real. This only affects minorities, mainly brown and black skin people. Not EVERYONE, Humbug. So how do you prove citizenship for minors? No excuse me, brown/black skin minors? I don’t see any white kids being detained until someone can prove their citizenship. AZ is now a joke as a state. Yes, honor students will not come here because they will be harrassed by the police for the color of their skin, plain and simple. We have one of the largest deficits in the nation and now are implementing unfunded mandates. I am proud of Tucson for sueing the state…..Phoenix will do the same soon. Never been a civil rights activist, but we be now.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
As for out-of-state honors students that have told the school they’ll be enrolling somewhere else.
……they’re just biting off their nose to spite their face. I don’t understand how people that are illegal can get all these benefits, medicare, food stamps, welfare, etc. They should have to show legal documents to show they are a US citizen. If they are not a citizen they are breaking the law, they should not be entitled to any aid from the United States. How do they get Social Security when they have never put money into Social Security. No wonder everybody wants to go to America they get everything for free, they don’t have to work, the US citizens that have worked their whole life will take care of them. If I knew that if I went to Mexico and they would give me food stamps, welare, medicaid, etc. then I would go live there.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I agree with Mel. He has a brain.
Kristell, grow up.
Whenthemajority says, THEY DON’T pay taxes – they get paid cash. They’re illegal, remember?
You can’t go into any other country in the world and get free food, eduction, and health care. In the city in which I live, a teacher in the elementary school told me that they have kids come to school who can’t even speak English, yet the administration can’t even ask the families if they’re legal – what is that about?!? So now the teachers have to spend lots of extra time and resources with these children, while the rest sit and wait. You wouldn’t see that in any other country.
Lola, you sound unhappy and bitter. Maybe you should move.
Humbug – carry your ID. It’s a good idea no matter where you go. If you get hit by a bus, they’ll know who you are. It’s not that big a burden, really.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
My mother is Native American. too bad the native americans didn’t have a policy such as Arizona’s new law when they were bombarded, harassed, slaughtered and FORCED from THEIR lands by ILLEGAL ALIENS!!
I say Arizona is the only state demonstrating it has a governor with a good functioning brain who has the welfare of it’s LEGAL CITIZEN’S AS A PRIORITY. Illegal aliens are CHEATERS. They need to go through the same legal process of applying for U.S. citizenship as all legal immigrants do.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Follow the situation to its logical conclusions – in both directions. Where do they lead?
A) If we respect the sovereignty and borders of a country – as every nation in the world does and must do o be able to retain a society and economy – we must ensure that those who come into the US do so according to the rules of a social contract, rules we call laws. We end up preserving all that has been worked and fought for over two centuries. We have our freedoms and the means to earn a living. We have the means to continue to lead the world in democracy and better standards of living.
B) If we go the other direction, ignoring the laws and allowing all to do whatever they wish (called “license”), we have to open the borders and allow in ALL who want to come … along with the criminals and crime, narcotics, disrespect for the host country, taking of jobs and social benefits that were intended and paid for by citizens, and on and on. That is its logical conclusion.
So .. which do we choose? Option A or B? A calls for the preservation of a nation and society that leads the world in respect for human life, freedom and human free agency, positive ethics, and has paid the price in dollars and blood for peoples all over the world, for centuries in almost all continents. For the benefit of our good and law-abiding people and for the benefit that leadership brings to the entire world, I choose Option A.
Let’s make immigration reform what it really needs to be, namely ENFORCEMENT of the laws that we already have on the books. That is all our law here in Arizona seeks to do. No more, as the purveyors of disinformation do in calling us Arizonans racists (which we are not- come on people, show a little common sense when you make such accusations). Neither are our law enforcement folks racists. They are great people – I know many of them – and they are not little Castros or Maos or Talibanis or Kim Jong-ils or Nazis. This is the United States and I think we all know better than to make such mindless accusations. Too bad you couldn’t experience a true dictatorship kind of society first-hand as many of us have. Then you’d know what a back and white difference we have here in America.
Isn’t it time we adopted a little intellectual honesty in this debate, as Mel and TruthSeeker and Pat Wish and a few others have done. Keep standing up for the truth, in the face of the onslaught of those crying for mere license to do whatever they want, since that is what this demand for “immigration reform” really is!
May 13th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
I agree, Vicky, it’s crazy to think people are walking around without an ID of SOME sort. Whether I’m just out for a vigorous walk or walking to work there’s ALWAYS an ID on me in case of an emergency – even if it’s the only thing I’m carrying. What would happen if I were hit by a car or any other emergency? It’s a habit I began a LONG time ago and now, anytime I leave the house, I always ask myself, what am I forgetting? Keys, cell phone, ID and, if needed, money. Good to go!
Robert and IntellectualHonesty both wrote excellent comments (as did many others on here) – and I especially appreciate all the facts and truths provided. There’s no doubt this is a touchy topic among Americans these days and as Robert says, we must work together for solutions. We must enforce the laws we already have – and ‘we the people’ need to respect the law.
May 13th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
“My mother is Native American. too bad the native americans didn’t have a policy such as Arizona’s new law when they were bombarded, harassed, slaughtered and FORCED from THEIR lands by ILLEGAL ALIENS!!
I say Arizona is the only state demonstrating it has a governor with a good functioning brain who has the welfare of it’s LEGAL CITIZEN’S AS A PRIORITY. Illegal aliens are CHEATERS. They need to go through the same legal process of applying for U.S. citizenship as all legal immigrants do.”
WTF? I assume you are being sarcastic? Right?!?? If not, you make no sense. But for the sake of common sense I will assume you are.
Everyone’s is still missing the whole damn point. this is not immigration reform. It is racial profiling in it’s most obivous form. If your skin is darker than white, you will get questioned, plan and simple. The worst part about it is that many corporations are boycotting AZ when our economy is in dire straights. Our Gov. is an economic retard! Now taxpayers are asked to pay the salaries of cops and teachers due to the Gov. misuse of money. BS!!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Reply to Vicki….
I agree with you 100%. Not only are the illegal’s kids going to our schools free and be catered to by the hiring of Spanish speaking teachers and mobile classrooms being installed to manage the overcrouding but our realestate taxes which fund the schools are going up every year. I have lived here for 6 years. In that period of time my taxes have increased by $2,000. This is even as the housing values have tanked due to the economy! The schools are bending over backward or is it forward to accomodate people that are here illegally.
Our government is screwing us. We need some kind of a platform where all Americans can finally speak their feeling about this. The illegals are allowed to march in the streets protected as they demand rights they do not have but we are not offered a means of a group voice.
May 14th, 2010 at 10:05 am
No, Dan, everyone is not missing the point here. In fact, YOU are. The new law would NOT have had to be enacted if the federal would have been doing their job all along: protecting our borders, ALL borders. But since they’ve turned a blind eye to this hot issue, border states are getting the brunt of the problems. AZ said enough is enough and if the ‘feds’ aren’t going to do their job, then the state will. What else are they supposed to do? Just roll over and let the problems continue? Sadly, the amount of illegal drugs coming through is considerably worse than those seeking work. BUT, you can’t pick and choose who is or isn’t bringing in drugs, disease, criminal activity and gang members. Stop it ALL and require they apply for legal entry. If you are a legal citizen of the U.S., why don’t you go to Mexico for a while and see how long it takes before they’re knocking on your door asking for LEGAL DOCUMENTATION that allows you to be there after a certain period of time! GUESS WHAT? You’ll get arrested! So WHY aren’t we allowed in the U.S. to ask for DOCUMENTATION of your LEGAL status to be here???!! Dan, people like you NEVER seem to want to confront this exact same issue! As a U.S. citizen I can’t stay in Mexico WITHOUT the proper documents. So why is it unfair a Mexican (or other immigrant) has to provide proper documentation in the U.S.??? Please give me a REASON! If you say it’s ‘profiling’, then they’re doing to same thing in Mexico!
May 14th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Actually it will affect everyone because the police will not want to be sued for discrimination. Also, according to this law, the police can be sued for not questioning everyone.
Currently, I don’t carry ID with me when I go jogging or visit my next door neighbor. My house keys fit in my shoe so I don’t need to worry about being mugged or losing them. I don’t want to have to start finding jogging pants with pockets just because the law requires I have identification papers on me at all times.
May 14th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
One thing about this whole issue I really don’t understand: people claiming “racial profile” do not get that at our southern border it is a Mexican illegal alien problem. Yes there are other illegal aliens, but in reference to southern border states it is a very specific Hispanic oriented problem. I mean, what are the numbers of non-Hispanic illegal aliens coming into Arizona? Certainly an almost negligible percentage in comparison. So it may have to be profiling since that is the only option to try and identify illegals. This should be common sense! So is having proper I.D. if you are near a border area. If you are Hispanic and legally at a US border, I suspect you never go without I.D. knowing the border laws and rick of deportation. All generations of Mexicans since 1903 are quite familiar with border laws otherwise why do they try to cross without being caught? Ya think?
US Immigration Laws enacted specifically for the Mexican border:
* 1903: This Act restated the 1891 provisions concerning land borders and called for rules covering entry as well as inspection of aliens crossing the Mexican border.
* 1907 The US immigration Act of 1907: Reorganized the states bordering Mexico (Arizona, New Mexico and a large part of Texas) into Mexican Border District to stem the flow of immigrants into the United States. See more: http://www.rapidimmigration.com/usa/1_eng_immigration_history.html
May 14th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
So, it’s not like you couldn’t get a lanyard to put your ID card around your neck and knock .00000005 seconds off your jog time because of the extra weight. Or, try the new “Shoe Caddy” from RONCO. It attaches with velcro to the top of your shoe and holds up to 3 cards and a few dollars;-)
What happens when an Illegal Alien wants to fly to Europe? Does the Federal Government require them to have a valid U.S. Passport, or do they just claim their actual citizenship? *Or can an Illegal Alien even afford to fly to Europe because they’re working in some “low-paying” job?
If the original problem is that there is an influx of undocumented persons putting a strain (economic & other resources) on the various governmental and social systems of the State (many States), what is your answer? Do nothing until the system breaks? *Isn’t that why individuals and families are leaving Mexico? If a “better” life is doing menial jobs in the U.S. so that you can send a few bucks back to family in Mexico, then life must be pretty bad in Mexico. **Wouldn’t a legal U. S. Citizen, who has had an excellent life up to now, begin to fear that a broken system could happen, even in America, especially in this Economy?
What is your answer, not to the faulty Arizona immigration law, but to the problem of a strained economy?
Aren’t the “haves” going to say, “I see my piece of the pie slipping away,” while the “have nots” cry, “I want a piece of that pie?”
May 14th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Humbug — you don’t need PAPERS — your license will work (or photo ID). Again, if you’re out jogging and get hit by a bus, it would be good for you and your family if you could be identified quickly and accurately. Just a little common sense… and for YOUR own good.
May 17th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I’ve lived in Arizona for the past 30 years. Law enforcement already has the needed authority to detain illegal entrants and hand them over to the US Border Patrol. Pima County, the second most populated county in Arizona, and a border county, has turned over more illegal entrants than any other county in Arizona. The Sheriff of Pima County, Clarence Dupnik, says this law is stupid, expensive, ineffective and racist. I agree. This law was not created to give authority to law enforcement it was created to eliminate any discretionary decisions by local police by FORCING them to arrest, detain and export illegals to Border Patrol. To ensure local law enforcement submits to the will of state legislature, the law also makes it easier for anyone to sue if they think local law enforcment is not aggressive enough. This legislature has created many laws in recent years that prevent local county and city leaders from exercising local control and decision makin. It’s more about centralizing control and making everyone submit to the will of state government.
May 17th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
The police officer can stop me now and ask for my ID, my inusrance, my car registration but only if he has legal grounds to stop me in the first place. They could make up an excuse but that does not happen a lot. SO what is the difference. Why is it wrong to ask them for their ID etc and not wrong to ask me. I am a white, AfroAmerican, American Indian, Scot Irrish, German, and French citizen of this country. (The above is my lenage)
May 17th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Kay, what you say is logical, but I’m not sure the original argument is. Why would we wrap an American flag around an illegal alien (figurative entitlement to American resources), Hispanic or other national per the pictorial in this article? Why would an illegal not be equally subject to our federal and state laws? What is wrong with asking for ID if there is compelling reason to do so by law enforcement? As you note, all Americans are subject to provide identification on request from law officers. Providing ID is not unprecedented or inequitable in this country or any other self-governing nation.
May 17th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
CW: Huh?! Am I missing something here? You say “Law enforcement already has the needed authority to detain illegal entrants and hand them over to the US Border Patrol” and then you say “This law was not created to give authority to law enforcement it was created to eliminate any discretionary decisions by local police by FORCING them to arrest, detain and export illegals to Border Patrol”. If the authorities have to be FORCED to arrest, detain, and export illegals, that tells me THEY AREN’T CURRENTLY DOING THEIR JOB. What’s “discretionary” about it? They’re either legal or they’re not. You make it sound like the local authorities can just decide it’s ok to overlook that when ever they feel like it? Discretionary means “subject or left to one’s own discretion”. It’s a law, it’s not up to the local authorities to disregard it when they want to. Why shouldn’t they arrent, detain, and export illegals? WHAT are you talking about???
May 18th, 2010 at 10:30 am
There has been a lot of posts about carrying and ID and police being able to request and ID. But these are ID’s for identification purposes. The only ID I have which shows that I am a citizen are my passport and birth certificate. I do not routinely carry these. I am not sure if a SS# requires proof of citizenship to get – and my card is just a typed card that could easily be forged. A birth certificate is not sufficient for a person who has changed their name, they would also need documentation of the name change. Perhaps even multiple documents for multiple name changes. To me, this is the real objection to the law.
So how many of the respondents here routinely carry ID which identifies them as citizens or legally in the country?
May 18th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Steven, are you US born or naturalized, or what? You say you have a driver’s license you carry. A driver’s license is a form used for proof of U.S. citizenship. Your information is immediately verifiable here: http://www.license.shorturl.com/ Any driver’s information is verifiable at any U.S. border.
FYI Federal required documentation to obtain a U.S. drivers license for U.S. citizens: http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/dmv/driverlic/documents/required_doc.pdf
May 18th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Response to Steve
As a US citizen, if putting my birth certif icate in my purse would help enforce the law I would be happy to cary whatever documentation necessary. My taxes are going up and up and up because of the children of illegals jamming our schools as well as stress on our town social service resources.
May 18th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDERILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET
1 – A JOB,
2 – A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 – SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 – WELFARE,
5 – FOOD STAMPS,
6 – CREDIT CARDS,
7 – SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
8 – FREE EDUCATION,
9 – FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 – A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
11 – BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
12 – AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
I do not blame the ones crossing without permission I blame our Government rules. I would be doing this to if I were in there shoes. But the US can not maintain this. The US government will eventually run out of someone elses money and then what.
May 18th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
THANK YOU, Kay! Isn’t that plain enough for everyone to understand?
May 19th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
So what happens when you lose your wallet/purse with your ID, SSN Card, Birth Certificate, etc.? Do you think it will be returned to you? Or do you think they will be used for ID Theft? It’s already really easy to have it stolen. Why would you put yourself in a situation to only make it easier? I don’t carry anything with me like humbug because I care about my identity. I have been a victim before and it took about 6 years to clean it up.
I look forward to visiting Arizona just so that I can sue them for racially profiling me. I am Latino and am damb proud of it. I am also American and am damb proud of it. I will exercise my American rights when I sue Arizona for being profiled. In California I’m already pulled over and stopped just because “I fit the description” of whatever the cop wants to make up. This law just gives police the unilateral right to mess with me just because.
Wake up America! Is this the America we want? This law violates every fiber of what America stands for. This is not the America I know and I will fight it until the day I die. There is a thing called Human Rights that we must never forget. The core issue is jobs and the lack there of. Blame the corporations for taking jobs out of this country or outsourcing just to make a buck! That’s why there aren’t any jobs here. One of the reasons our economy is suffering. What happened to the good union jobs? Oops! I forgot “union” is no longer a supported concept. Just remember that they are responsible for the 5-day work week, minimum wage, and 40hr work week.
May 19th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Some of you “Carry all documents” lovers should read the FTC’s tips on protecting your Identity. I beleive they are also a Federal Agency.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/idtheft/idt06.pdf
May 19th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Vicki, you are definitely missing something. It’s clear you don’t understand the issue here in Arizona, or law enforcement in general. Not all laws are enforced in every situation. They can’t be and they never will be. Have you ever received a warning for speeding instead of a ticket? That’s called discretion. Next time a cop tries to give you a warning, demand that she give you a ticket instead. Until then, stop talking about how righteous you are.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:14 am
OK – I really think most police are way too busy and short handed to be pullling over ‘specific types of people who fit a profile’.
AND – in order to get a legal driver’s license you HAVE TO PROVIDE PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP. Therefore you only need to show your driver’s license or insurance card and in some cases, car registration if you get pulled over.
AND – the law states, probable cause for requesting ID is when there is a case of BREAKING THE LAW IN PROGRESS.
AND – most police have mandatory taping and recording of traffic violation stops to both ensure the police are not harassing the public by ‘profiling’ and to protect themselves to prove probable cause.
AND – I’m of NATIVE AMERICAN ANCESTRY – SO DON’T GO BLITHERING ON ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED. Get over yourselves already.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:25 am
CW – wow. Getting stopped for speeding and entering a country ILLEGALLY are quite different, are they not? Are you suggesting that they just say to the illegal “gee, this is your first offense, so you just get a warning this time. But please don’t do it again”?? Again, I say HUH?
To “really?” — just what we need – more sue-happy people. You are part of the problem.
May 21st, 2010 at 11:22 am
Really, really! If you want more jobs available in this country deal with illegality in hiring. There are 3 meat packing plants in the town I live in. I know a legal American citizen in all three and all three of the them tell me that their plants are jammed with illegals. If the law was enforced there would be lots of open jobs available.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Yes Pat, exactly! In the area where I live in Southern Idaho one of our lumber companies with 12 employees was busted for seven of them being Mexican illegals. They were making equal wages upwards of $22 per hour and working 45-50 hours per week. Busted by a whistle blower. We’ve had a child care center, Floral delivery service, carpenters, fence installers, carpet layers and more, all wage earning illegals. These are not $5.75 wage jobs, most illegals simply are not picking fruit and vegetables or doing our dirty jobs.
May 21st, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Magic Word…Yes these illegals are making $25 an hour and also working 45-50 hours a week with overtime pay. After a year they get fabulous health insurance. There are as many as 150 in one of these places. I have a brother…an American citizen than has been looking for work for 8 months. He would love to have that job.
I work with people that live in a community that has no industrial jobs. There is no cheap housing or section 8 housing there either. It is expensive to live there so there are no illegals. These folks think I am nuts and bigoted. They don’t have their taxes going up, their food pantries empty, their shopping centers turning into all Mexican stores. The Walgreens here plays spanish music and their are spanish translation signs in the store. Every bank and doctor’s offices have spanish interpreters. Some buy homes and trash them parking their cars on the front lawns. The police here are afraid of enforcing the law because they cry discrimination. The city has to pay to defend them self in court so they tip toe around the law breakers.
I don’t feel like I live in America. If they were all legal citizens that were here because they appreciate the prosperity that they have found here and were willing to learn English and assimilate, it would be fine but they are here to TAKE and DEMAND more and more. They will not look you in the eye. There is a silence that is uncomfortable and threatening. My school taxes are going sky high.
When will those of us citizens of this country, of all races, get an opportunity to voice our opinions? Here on the internet? Is anyone listening that can really DO something?
None of the people I work with are experiencing this so they pay no attention. They do not understand because the situation does not effect them. There are lots of people in lots of places still in American who have not been personally touched by this yet. The time will come. I just hope it will not be too late.
May 21st, 2010 at 10:22 pm
Vicki, I think you over-simplify. Complex issues don’t have simple solutions and this issue is definitely complex. To answer your question, speeding is a crime in all areas of Arizona and prosecuted in traffic court (unless you opt to pay the fine or go to traffic school). Being here illegally doesn’t even meet the misdemeanor requirements of trespassing. Illegal entrants in Arizona cannot be prosecuted; they cannot be jailed for thier “crime” of trespassing; they cannot be deported. The most Arizona law enforcement can do is detain the illegal entrant and hand them over to the Border Patrol. That cycle can continue indefinitely. The only difference with this law is that the cops don’t have discretion when they need it. Believe it or not, Arizona law enforcement cannot keep up with their workload. People here rarely even bother calling the cops on non-violent crimes, like burglary, because they know an officer won’t likely respond and even if they do, nothing will be investigated. The cops don’t have the resources to waste on arresting every single illegal alien they encounter. Their time would be better spent on important issues. Arizona shouldn’t have to pay the expense to protect the rest of the country from these so-called “criminals” you abhor, yet freely hire in your state. I have no doubt Gov Brewer signed the law as part of a back room deal to gain support for something else. It’s a bad law, it’s costing Arizona lots of money and I’m hopeful Arizona’s reputation will be restored somewhat in November by voting out the morons who created this mess.
May 24th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
CW – gee, I thought the illegals coming in (and sucking up our resources and taking our jobs) WAS an IMPORTANT issue. I guess we have different priorities. If “Being here illegally doesn’t even meet the misdemeanor requirements of trespassing. Illegal entrants in Arizona cannot be prosecuted; they cannot be jailed for thier “crime” of trespassing; they cannot be deported.” — if this is true — then tell me what’s wrong with THAT PICTURE!?
Please give me an example of this “discretion” you’re talking about that the law enforcement needs.
I have a brother and a cousin who live in AZ, and my husband has a sister who lives there. They’re sick to death of the problems caused by illegals. My cousin was hit head on by a drunk driving illegal, who of course had no license or insurance. My cousin was in the hospital, had surgeries, missed worked, his motorcycle was wrecked, and he still has problems with his shoulder. But the illegal walks away and there were no consequences and all the cost is borne by my cousin.
BTW, I never called them criminals and I never said I abhor them — but, like many others, I’m tired of the cost to our nation, I’m tired of having to accomodate them in so many ways (like what Pat Wish mentions), and even bend over backwards for them. The law might be costing Arizona money, but all the illegals coming in and and getting free food, housing, health care, education — is costing the WHOLE nation billions! It has to start somewhere. And we have to stop the flood of illegals entering our country. No it’s not simple — but just because it isn’t simple, doesn’t mean we just ignore it. Hello-o-o!
May 24th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
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May 24th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
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May 24th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Sad to see so much bigotry in Higher Ed forums. I guess it doesn’t matter how much education you have because you still can’t get over the envy and hate!
May 25th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Higher Ed has nothing to do with it.
Try living where I live or in Arizona. I work with people that live in a high rent area. There are no illegals where they live so their hearts bleed for these poor illegals. They have no clue what is really going on and would not like living with the mess that this illegal issue is causing.
They are educated and but blind because they have money to live in a rich community. The day will come where this problem gets so bad that they will finally live with the problem. Then they will change there mind and so will you…. educated or not.
May 25th, 2010 at 11:31 am
To Sahnika and Len,
This is the United States of America. We speak English her first!
May 25th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
REALLY? I love it when we’re accused of bigotry for wanting the U.S. to protect our borders from ILLEGAL ACTIVITY!!! Don’t dare call me a racist! My oldest son is biracial (Mexican) and he agrees there’s NO security along the southern border. He’s been to Mexico numerous times and even has an American friend living in Tijuana. His friend lives there because it’s so much cheaper than San Diego.
Vicky – I totally agree with your posts – especially your latest one. At the university where I work, there was a beautiful young student killed a couple years ago by an illegal immigrant (allegedly drunk) who ran immediately after the accident. They eventually caught up with him a few states away and he was charged. I don’t remember the penalty but the point is this would never have happened if he wouldn’t have just ignored our laws and came anyhow.
Why are we “racist” for wanting the U.S. government to ENFORCE the laws?? This has NOTHING to do with Mexican’s or Latinos – it’s with EVERY PERSON who has come here without permission! It’s the entitlement so many of them EXPECT just because they arrived here – ILLEGALLY. It’s the drugs smuggled in here EVERYDAY without check. Now as I understand it, they are bringing in a very potent strain of heroin that has already killed hundreds of people this year alone – all from Mexico.
The U.S. government and TAXPAYERS cannot afford to accommodate every single person who enters the country illegally – just because they WANT to! THIS IS A LAW! What’s wrong with hard-working Americans expecting the laws of the land to be enforced? And this makes us RACIST??!! If this is the case, don’t even get me started as to what this makes YOU! YOU know nothing about ‘human rights’ when you call people – the majority of the U.S. LEGAL citizens ‘racist’!
May 25th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
My families in Arizona would agree with Pat. Even though they live in very nice areas themselves, they deal with the issues everywhere they go, and at the clinic where my sister-in-law works. It’s that REALITY thing.
May 25th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Vicki, we DO have different priorities. That’s fine with me. It’s my tax dollars that will be used to enforce this Arizona law, not yours, so my priorities are clearly more important on this one. Last time I checked, your state is not offering to send us your tax dollars to enforce this law. so your opinion is irrelevant. Had the new law been in place when your cousin was hit by an illegal, it wouldn’t have mattered. In that case, i’m sure they handed the illegal over to the ICE and obviously they didn’t need this law to do that. The new law doesn’t stop illegal immigration; it simply moves the high cost of enforcing immigration from the feds to the state and local law enforcement. As to illegals “sucking up our resources” what do you think will be used to enforce this law — our resources. You should do some research on the topic. There are many studies that show the benefits of cheap illegal labor outweigh the costs. Illegals contribute billions in state sales taxes and Social Security, they do the unskilled jobs other Americans can’t or won’t do, they make our goods and services less expensive; they contribute to the productivity of the country. It’s only now that we are in a recession that anyone even notices the jobs are they are doing. I pay far more to support unmotivated Americans than I do hardworking illegals.
May 26th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
CW, illegals are driving trucks, working in factories, working in building and road construction getting paid far more than minimum wage. I see this with my own eyes every day. In the plant where my friend works they are getting $25 per hour with fabulous health care benefits after one year. There are about 150 illegal non-English speaking workers there.
Why? Because they will work 12-14 hours a day without overtime pay. They will work on holidays and weekends without overtime pay. They will work 12-14 hours, 7 days for three weeks straight with no time off which is against federal law. WITHOUT COMPLAINING. American citizens know this is slave labor and demand their rights. The illegals have no rights to the greedy employers. So believe me when I tell you….illegals are not just working jobs that citizens do not want. My brother has been out of work for 8 months. He would love to have one of the jobs I have described but he will demand his legal rights because he is a citizen and that is what the employer does not want.
Do you see the difference?
May 26th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
CW – About your statements “my priorities are clearly more important” and “your opinion is irrelevant” — wow. Seems to me we all have a stake in this if we live in the U.S. since the matter affects ALL of us. It’s not just about you.
There might be one thing we agree on, if I read your last statement correctly — it stinks to work hard to support unmotivated Americans.
May 26th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Pat Wish makes a very good point.
I heard an interview on NPR over the weekend. A law professor in Callifornia indicated the Arizon Law will actually be beneficial to illegal immigrants who are basically supplying slave labor to some unethical and greedy business owners. (Florida has a high porportion of such businesses). There is also an organization – can’t recall the acronym, but it’s a Guest Worker program wherein the workers are transported back and forth across the boarder from their agriculture jobs. They get far better working conditions and their employers have to follow contracted conditions. Therefore, the guest workers aren’t ‘draining’ US pubic resources.
Many of the jobs immigrant workers perform, especially in agriculture, are extremely hard – physically, and are considered low skill with low wages. However, if businesses were penalized or shut down for employing illegal aliens, these businesses would have to improve working conditions, pay, work processes in order to employ a better skilled labor force – the whole country would benefit by raising labor conditions and quality of products and services. Doesn’t mean these business have to be swallowed up by unions – which have their own problems of corruptness. Plus those business which can offer lower prices due to ‘slave labor’ really do make it that much harder for legally run businesses to compete. This is especially true in construction.
May 26th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
CW, clearly you haven’t taken into account the vast resources illegals embezzle from U.S. “taxpayer” subsidized Health Care, housing assistance, energy grants, substance abuse and mental health services, legal services, incarceration costs, paid Social Security benefits, Welfare benefits in monthly income for food and support of illegal’s children, free education in K-12, and benefits or grants paid for Higher Ed., there are hundreds more programs that have to support illegals across the nation. Even private industry wants these dollars, that is why we have “push one for English, two for Spanish”. This whole problem is because our Federal Immigration Laws have not been enforced due to “political correctness” which is clearly an oxymoron. In your state’s instance they are taking the reins to enforce these laws and clean up the devastation along your border, reduce drug crime, put the American taxpayer back in control of who his state funding benefits – Americans. I say Arizona has it right, and other states will follow when your illegals are forced to encroach elsewhere.
May 26th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Everyone can stop wondering why the Obama administration is upset over the Arizona Law. It has nothing to do with the law. Obama is up set because a State has used its Constitutional right to act as a soverign entity. If all of the states stand up and let everyone know that the federal government CAN NOT tell the states what to do he will not be able to become king. Now think about it. He wants a militia that he can control within our boarders (what reason would a president need this?) and he wants control of the internet (he will stop all comunication except for what he wants us to hear). Sounds like one of the dictator governments that Obama likes so much.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Vicky and Pat: CW seems to know-it-all and could care less about the ‘little people’ (you know, people like you and me who work hard and see the injustice all around us). What a shame! S/He better hope his/her bubble doesn’t burst or they’ll see the true reality. Been there – done that and it’s a slap in the face when you realize what’s REALLY going on when your eyes are opened! I’m sick of it when I see how hard people from countries like China, India, nations in Africa and South America and MANY other countries who want to come here for our exceptional university programs and can’t. They don’t want to come here to take advantage of our system – they want to learn and take this back to their own countries to make it better. THAT’S the way it should be! If you don’t like your country TRY TO FIX THE PROBLEMS!
My youngest son has been looking for work for months now and since his Dad died just over a month ago, it’s more important than ever since he’s registered for college this fall. Who’s going to help him? His Dad didn’t leave an ‘estate’ and I’m a single working Mom trying to make ends meet. Since his dad and I owed back (state) taxes from many years ago, they immediately placed a levy on his Dad’s bank account and TOOK IT ALL. Then proceeded to take ALL but $5 from my bank account a few days later. What ticks me off about this is the fact this money will likely go to someone LEGAL or ILLEGAL too lazy to stop having babies or to get up and do SOMETHING so as not to depend on the government for their support. I’m sick of it! My son told me a few days ago he’d be glad to clean motel rooms – a job people like “CW” says we won’t do. HA! I was raised in SoCal and I remember many of my classmates used to go work in fields for summer work! They liked it because it helped them “stay in shape” and they’d work on their tans. EXACT WORDS they used.
Our system is BROKEN and we’re the ones being penalized. You just CAN’T have millions and millions of people in this country ILLEGALLY and not have catastrophic consequences! It doesn’t work and name me any other country on this planet where is HAS been successful!! NAME ONE!
May 26th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
That is, name ONE COUNTRY in the last, say, fifty years – NOT CENTURIES!!! You won’t find one! What’s your smart reply now, CW?
May 27th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Dear President Obama,
I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like your assistance.
We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.
I’m sure they handle those things the same way we do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico but I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U. S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I’ll need Income tax credits so although I don’t pay Mexican Taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Government pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help. You’re the man!!!
May 28th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Vicki, Your last post was wonderful….sums it all up doesn’t it? I would like to say it was a good laugh but it is too true to be funny. There may be those that read your post that think that you are exaggerating. These would be the people that do not live with this situation every day.
Every single item is true. I see it an live with it every day. It is so outrageous that it seems that it couldn’t be true but it all is. What happened to common sense?
June 1st, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Vicki, I said your opinion is irrelevant on this particular issue. Immigration affects us all, but this article wasn’t about immigration, it’s about Arizona law enforcement and how it impacts higher ed. As an Arizona resident and taxpayer, I’m directly affected by Arizona’s laws; you are not. Once again, Arizona cannot independently create or enforce any immigration policies; that’s the responsibiity of the feds. Arizona can ONLY detain illegals and turn them over to the feds for deportation. Period. Arizona had that authority long before the law was enacted.
Pat, there may be a handful of highly skilled illegals making the wages you claim, but they are overwhelmingly in the minority. Illegals are hired by American companies specifically because they are willing to do the unskilled, low pay jobs that Americans usually will not. Supply and demand. Now that the country is in a recession, there are more Americans willing to do the unskilled, low pay jobs and we’re seeing fewer illegals as a result. But that will change as the economy improves and then more illegals will be hired, unless Congress passes sensible immigration reform.
Mel, I have no idea what you’re asking me, nor do I really care (You lost me with the riddle about your son losing his father). Anyway, the iimmigration policies of other countries “over the last centuries” have absolutely nothing to do with Arizona law, nor this thread. And btw, just because a college age male says he would clean hotel rooms, doesn’t mean he would actually do that. You should know better.
As fun as it’s been to banter at this “tea party”, it’s time to move on.
June 2nd, 2010 at 12:00 pm
CW – Vicky’s opinion is not irrelevant – because she, like the rest of us, are all part of this UNITED States. You don’t live in a bubble, you know. Well…… maybe you do. What you’re saying doesn’t make sense to me at all.
Did you all hear on the news last night when they were interviewing people at the protest in Arizona – they asked one lady why she was protesting – she admitted she was illegal! Can you imagine going to another country illegally, and then protesting inside that country, because they are trying to enforce their laws?
I didn’t used to be prejudiced, but I’m starting to feel like I am now.
June 2nd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Sorry, CW, but ‘Tea Partier’ I’m definitely NOT! I’m an independent voter who no longer supports our TWO party system. They’ve BOTH become too extreme – left or right.
Don’t tell me what my college-aged son will or won’t do! His friend just got a job at the local Motel 6 and ISN’T complaining! He’s 22 and I’ve PERSONALLY asked him about it and he has NO complaints other than the occasional ‘unsavory’ customers who show up.
I’m glad there are now many other states who are working to include themselves with AZ to enforce our illegal immigration explosion! By all means, people are WELCOME to the U.S. when they go through the process LEGALLY. Otherwise, ADIOS!
June 2nd, 2010 at 3:05 pm
CW – I wonder if you live in a place where housing is inexpensive and the town you live in bends over backwards for the illegals? You would see the job situation is as I say it is. These illegals are worth the high wages to the greedy employers. They work 3 weeks straight without a day off and offer no chance of unionizing. They work under the worst of circumstances without a whimper. That is what makes them so valuable. That is why the employers pay because in the long run it is cheaper to have slaves than American citizens that would call upon their rights.
Yes SENSIBLE immigration reform that actually enforces the illegal employment laws and puts these law breaking employers in jail.
June 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Jackie
I know what you mean about prejudice. Unfortunately I have become the same way.
June 2nd, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Jackie and Pat — sadly, me too.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
To CW, you are wrong. You state that “Arizona cannot independently create or enforce any immigration policies”. Have you ever hear of states rights? States have the right to enact their own laws and they are not controled by the federal government (unless they wish to be by accepting federal money) Have you ever heard of the federal government powers being limited and few? Have you ever heard that the states rights are great and indifinent? If not read the Federlist Papers by James Madison.