And the situation now is completely different from the way it was when I was a college boy in the 1960′s. So many are not on the high school, then college, then get a job track. There are many ins and outs and ups and downs to all this. But as someone who did it in the tradtional sequence (and I did the bachelor’s, start to finish, in THREE years), I can see advantage in the track of getting adult experience integrated with college work. This track is unlikely to result in a neat four-year path, but students have a more realistic life view while getting formal education. The various ways of arranging one’s life have advantages and disadvantages — But to me it seems that the question of why many students do not graduate in four years has been framed by people out of touch with reality. I hope the current college students don’t end up so dumb as the people who are surprised by this new circumstance.

P.S. Oh by the way I hope I have not inadvertently made a grammatical error as I am sure some of you would be more than happy to point out!

Yes I admit my grammar in my last posting is not the greatest. However you can’t pass judgment on my posting based on my Ed.D. standings. See I did receive very high scores on both my GRE and my MAT, however standardized testing leads to misunderstanding in the class work. In addition, my degree is centered more towards the counseling side of education, not the grading and evaluation of other students class work.

The reason I am pointing this out is not to call you out man, instead its to show that when a school is being accredited, or a student goes into school, not every avenue is being checked. When I started College, I never saw myself in this field.

To close, I wrote the last post and this one on my lunch break with 10 minutes left. Thank you

Academic advising is also in turmoil. There is sufficent support for incoming students and lower division students. The upper division advising is relegated to the academic departments and quality and availability varies wildly. I have seen students crying because they were advised incorrectly and required to take 2 or more extra semesters of course work that would not apply to their degree.. complaints of not being able to reach their advisors, and then other departments where the advisory support is exemplary..

Financial cost and the current economy of course does impact student ability to attend. Beyond the students who do get support from family – either financially our housing, etc – the rest often do work one or two jobs and attend school. My admiration goes out to the students who are able to complete a four year degree and work 30 to 40 hours a week… Most of us physically are not able to do that. Being in such a position in the past, and actually able to earn financial aid independance before 24… It took me 6 years to do a double major. The types of courses also impact graduation time.. one major was relatively simple and the other involved heavy duty science and math courses. Quality of teaching also was a significant impact. I had attended a state school, where I had fantastic professors and some professors who I would say I’d rather not ever meet again. One actually had a nervous breakdown in front of the whole class because we asked ‘such stupid questions’…

There are a lot of factors involved, as we all are attesting to. One question would be if it is truly of benefit for there to be a 4 year requirement for every major and every school. I currently work at a college with very limited funding, and of course the limit to number of courses, professors, actual physical space to hold classes.

Good luck to you all!

I agree with want you are saying about “being ready” however due to insurance parents are concerned that their child has insurance coverage. Students are “forced” into going full time (ready or not). Along that same line, if the insurance companies would back off somewhat student could take it slow (taking one or two classes) and doing well instead of taking four or five and doing poorly.

I think that should also be a consideration as we ask this question “Why are students taking longer…” I feel strongly that when Georgia changed from quarters to semesters it had a negative impact on students and their grades. Now instead of taking 3 class (for a full load) they are taking 5 classes. I have heard it argued that they have more time (16 weeks instead of 10 weeks). I disagree, yes they have more time, but when it comes to mid-terms and finals–they have 5 classes. I think this sets them up for failure a lot of times. When a student fails a class they have to retake the class. Thus begins the cycle and thus it takes longer to graduate.

I am concerned that we are continuing to ask the wrong questions and that with a push to “get them out in four years” we are actually doing a disservice to the students.

Let’s step back and look at how we can facilitate the educational process in a way that not only empowers the student but creates an environment for success.

In terms of the non-traditional aged students, the pressures of work and home certainly require that many pursue their degree part-time, thereby resulting in more than four years needed to complete a degree. This is fully legitimate.

For the traditional aged students, while there are certainly some students legitimately held back by the need to work full-time to pay their way, or to complete multiple majors/degrees, there are undoubtedly too many heading to college who simply aren’t ready. These students, under the guidance of their parents and counselors, should be encouraged to take a year or two “out” before making the transition to college. This time can be used to explore possible majors or to fill in gaps in readiness by taking courses at a community college (at a significantly reduced tuition), to work a job/internship to raise tuition money and/or gain maturity, to participate in community outreach… I have a good friend who decided mid-way through her first semester in college that she just wasn’t ready. She left (a mature decision) and spent a year working for AmeriCorps, then returned and finished her degree in four years.

College is meant to be a time of serious study. Certainly, some “ready” students will still need a semester or two to zero in on the right major, and all students will find that they will mature significantly. But sending a student to school who will is truly unready, and who will only flounder around searching years for a major, or to find the maturity to apply themselves to their studies, is inappropriate. We need more legitimate, accepted, transitional programs to help these students find their way BEFORE they head to college.

One the biggest problems for some students is that there are not enough instructors offering enough classes to be able to finish certain degrees on time. Students are sometimes forced to wait at least two semesters until the course they need is available. Advisers helping to plan coursework will help some, especially in making sure prerequisite courses are taken. But if the course isn’t available, there’s not much that can be done, except wait.

To all–

It is a BIG problem that students don’t graduate in 4 years. It’s a financial drain on the students, on the schools, and on the governments that give students grants and loans. To the gentleman who graduated in 1967 with 132 credits who is suspicious of 4-year graduates: please be advised that most degrees, unless they are in something like engineering or another technical field, now require in the neighborhood of 120-128 credits. (Engineering and other technical fields, like pharmacy, architecture, sports medicine, etc. are often 5-year programs.)

A student who takes 6 years to complete a 4-year degree is paying 50% more for his or her degree than he or she should be; is costing the college more, as most colleges kick in some sort of financial aid for many or all of their full-time undergrads; and they’re costing the public more in financial aid funds. In addition, many students are ill-prepared in K-12 and need remedial classes in college, so the college has to pay Ph.D.’s to teach classes that the students should have gotten long before they arrived on campus. That drives up the cost of a college education for everyone! It also often sinks the students who take more than 4 years to complete their degree deeper in debt, as most students now need to borrow loans to attend school. And, the students who need the remedial education are the ones that tend to take the longest to complete a degree, if they ever do, so they are the least able to repay their student loans. Either through loan forgiveness or default, the taxpayers end up picking up the financial slack.

Finally, there is the additional cost to the students and to society by delaying into the workforce and becoming productive, contributing to the national economy and the tax base. And don’t forget the cost to the parents who end up paying for “kids” into their mid-20s and beyond!

Yes, some students have special circumstances, but most 18-year-olds do not have the kinds of demands on their lives that would keep them from completing a degree in a timely fashion. I have a young relative who recently completed a 4-year degree in 4 years while living on her own, in a city away from her family, and supporting herself by working 40-50 hours per week. She moved up from a barrista to a manager, and to another company which wanted her to drop out of school to become a district manager, but she refused to break under the pressure and completed her degree, with a dual major, in 4 years at the age of 21. If she can complete a degree with a double-major in 4 years working these kind of hours, why can’t students living in the residence halls will a little part-time job, if any, do the same? When I was in college in the 70′s, it was rare for a traditional student to not complete a degree in 4 years–now it seems like the norm! I worked through college, and graduated in 4 years, magna cum laude. Often I worked several jobs. We didn’t do a lot of partying, and we didn’t expect to spend spring break on a beach in Cancun–spring break gave you extra hours to work. For us, it was a matter of fiscal responsibility and self-discipline–things that seem to be sorely lacking in modern society–and we had the financial meltdown last year to prove it!

My war story is that I started college in West Virginia in 1996, after graduating from high school with my guidance counselor telling me college would be a waste of my time and money. I did graduate college, 7 years later with my Bachelors degree. Did i take any time off, no. I attended school every summer as well.

The point of this is there is a couple factors that this study didn’t cover as well. During my time as an Undergrad I served as the president of the Student Activities Programming Board, as a straight male I president of the Gay – Straight Alliance. I was a Resident Adviser in my Dormitory where I helped my floor go from the lowest GPA on campus to the third highest on campus, and I was a Executive Member/ Charter founding member for the ACLU on campus, and finally I switched my major three times. Now you may not find that to be a reason, but when you start as a fine arts major, and you switch your major to Occupational Safety and Health Management, not many art credits can be used for Safety. So it was like I never attended class before.

After my graduation, I missed being a student and helping students find there way through, so I returned to get my Masters degree in Student Affairs Counseling. It was a 3 year program that I finished in a year and a half. I was determined to help students and my advisers noticed what i was doing and tested me on alternate material based on the jobs that they were doing. My job at this time was as a graduate assistant with the same Student Activities Programming Board that I was once president of. I was the adviser of the Gay Straight Alliance and was the Charter founder for the Chi Sigma Iota honors fraternity on my campus and served as Treasure.

Now I want to remind you that I was told College would be a waste of my time in High School. The reason being is that I now and a full time Faculty and Staff member at my Alma Maters Rival University as a counselor and Resident Director and I have 23 credit hours to go until I have successfully completed my Educational Doctorates in Higher Educational Leadership Studies. I have already completed all my research and writing for my dissertation and have had it approved by my adviser. I am now looking at different educational journals to contact to possibly have my work published.

Now do I feel that more than 4 years is a bad thing. No. It redefined my life, and made me a better person. I am not the person I was in High School and not everyone moves at the same pace.

So graduating in 4 years is rather a shortsighted or suboptimal goal, at least in terms of the student. I hope the universities are not serious about this. We are having problems competing internationally now, with too many of our top people close to retirement, and too few capable of replacing them. Let’s not dumb down the nation any further than we already have.

As mentioned by someone else, the bachelors degree was 120 credits, not the 128+ it is at many colleges and with many majors nowadays. It can easily take 135+ credits to earn a BA with a teaching certification, and that just doesn’t fit into 4 years.

Some students do still manage to fit their degree into 4 years but I suspect that these are the fortunate ones who are not paying the bulk of college expenses out of their own personal pocket – that with primary funding coming from another source, they have the resources and the time to take enough courses each term to finish in 4. For the rest, if they come in at under 5 1/2 years, that’s pretty good.

This is an issue that I’ve been hearing about for over 15 years here in Illinois. Part of the problem is with the students (needing remedial courses, dropping harder courses to maintain GPA, not taking a full course load each semester, changing majors, etc.). All of these add to the time needed to graduate.

But colleges and universities are also to blame. Many students have complained about multi-semester waiting lists for required courses, even for several general requirement courses. Also, I have had to deal with one department that drastically changed graduation requirements, forcing many students who were 2 classes away from graduating to take an extra 2-3 semesters coursework to qualify for graduation in that major.

The real problem here is that so many of these students are on financial aid. They are finding that there are more hurdles in place for college students going beyond their fourth year. In my school, it starts with having to write letters every semester explaining why financial aid needs to be continued. Then find that with each sememster, they receive less money, which causes them to take fewer classes and take longer to graduate.

So something does need to be done with this situation before the students find themselves becoming career students, alwasy taking one more class but never closer to graduating.

Many students don’t want to graduate in 4 years. They want to study abroad, get minors, get dual majors, take time off, etc. and none of that is counted in the statistics.

Students who transfer in and out of a college are completely uncounted as far as these statistics are concerned. That’s a huge population!

Students quite often learn the hard way that this ain’t high school, there’s no extra credit, no makeup exams, and if you fail, you fail. Surprise: now you can’t graduate on time. Maybe the university bends over backwards to offer the same course next semester so you can get back in sync, maybe they don’t (and really, should they be spending resources on this?) I think not graduating in 4 years due to a student’s own inability to manage their time and workload is probably one of the best lessons they will retain from their time in college.

Why is getting students to graduate on time a major concern for any state university system? Because parents are complaining about the rising cost of tuition, so lawmakers are applying a big, simple club to beat down this complicated problem: improve 4-year graduation rates. As with all overly simple solutions to complicated problems, in the end nobody wins.